On 01/08/2016 02:52 PM, Jim Rollenhagen wrote:
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 02:08:04PM -0500, Jay Pipes wrote:
On 01/07/2016 07:38 PM, Jim Rollenhagen wrote:
snippity snip snip
We haven't made it a dep for anything yet, only added to g-r.
According to Dims, not to g-r, but to u-c, right Dims? Not sure if that
makes functionally any difference, though (pun intended).
Both. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220268/
This thread was originally about twisted, which is added to u-c with the
introduction of mimic.
Got it, thanks.
However, now that you mention that, a really ambitious goal would be to
add a rabbit interface to mimic, and functionally test the API server
(that it sends the right messages, etc). Another would be to mimic
(Neutron, Glance) and test Ironic by itself.
So you would reimplement AMQP communication protocols using an in-memory
data store for queues. Sounds like an even greater surface area for bugs to
be introduced.
Last, I frankly don't understand why there's
such heavy opposition to the ironic team using an additional tool for
testing.
Since you asked, I'll be blunt. This isn't a personal attack on you, Jim,
though.
a) Because it fractures the testing and QA processes used by upstream
contributors that work on OpenStack projects by requiring them to learn
another system -- and one that potentially would require them to understand
a whole new surface area for potential bugs
I don't think there's a large risk of needing to dig deep into mimic,
and especially twisted. If this does prove to be a problem, I'm happy to
remove it. However, we can't even explore what it would be like, or how
hard we would depend on mimic, without mimic being in g-r.
Sure, fair enough.
b) Because it represents yet another RAX-driven divergence in the QA space.
CloudCafe took essentially all of the RAX folks that were at one point
working on Tempest and upstream QA and siloed them into a totally different
organization, in true RAX fashion. Instead of pulling the OpenStack QA
community along together, RAX QA continues to just do its own thing and
there's still bitterness on the tips of tongues.
So, this isn't trying to replace anything. This is adding a different
way to run functional tests, that is *much* faster than standing up a
full ironic environment. This is helpful for developers that want to
quickly run tests before posting them to gerrit, people that need to
test in constrained environments, etc.
I recognize it is much faster than standing up a real environment. And I
recognize that running faster client tests is a useful thing -- as long
as we can be confident that what is tested does not suffer from some of
the issues I identified earlier (syncing with real API and introduction
of greater surface area for bugs in the test platform itself).
I'm 100% against doing things like Rackspace did with tempest and
cloudcafe, and I wouldn't be supporting this effort if I felt it was
similar. Here's how this went:
* Lekha started working on OnMetal QA, with a goal of doing some amount
of upstream work as well.
* She's previously worked on projects (like autoscale) that interact
with OpenStack APIs, and seeing the need to test without a full nova
environment, built mimic.
* In talking with some of the other Ironic folks working on QA (from
Intel, IBM, more), she presented mimic as something that may be useful
for testing the client (and more). They (and I) agreed it was a neat
idea worth trying.
* Jay offered to help with the global-requirements patch as it's
something he's done before, and did the review grinding here.
* It finally landed, and lifeless asked me to bring up the Twisted
conversation on the list. Note that this is not the "is mimic
useful" conversation we're having now. Nobody remotely voiced
concerns about using a new test tool until this thread happened.
Please do let me know if any of that seems nefarious; I hope it doesn't.
No, nothing nefarious there. Sorry for letting my personal frustrations
bubble over into this.
I am not blocking anything from going forward and I definitely am not
asking for a revert of any g-r patch. Nor am I trying to obstruct you in
your governance of Ironic.
I was just raising my concerns as an OpenStack citizen and getting my
opinion out on paper.
Best,
-jay
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