Agreed, although I've learned over the years that second guessing what actions customers may or may not take is usually a losing battle ;)
On 26 February 2016 at 13:55, Robert Starmer <[email protected]> wrote: > For a user that's gone and deleted their network services, then wouldn't > they perhaps be savvy enough to deploy a network/subnet pair. If they > don't want to pay for the router then this is what they'd be working > towards (by deleting their initially provisioned service). As it stands > today, if you have a single network available (regardless of upstream > router), your "nova boot" process will associate the VM to that network > automatically. > > For the user who is trying to do something specific, giving them an option > (opt-out if you don't want a network), actually maps the most common case > of user wants a VM to be able to get to the world to the default, and the > odd (and I haven't ever seen an actual use case where I want a VM without a > network of some nature associated to it) case of "I don't want any network" > an option by specifically calling that out on boot. > > And I personally am unaware of any service provider that doesn't give you > network access by default when you stand up a project. > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Matt Jarvis < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> As I've already said in this thread, we automatically provide an initial >> network and router for all our customers as part of our on-boarding process >> so in our case this problem doesn't actually exist unless customers delete >> their initial router and network. If a customer has already deleted these >> for some reason, my concern around an opt-out process is that we start >> automatically creating chargeable entities without the customer >> specifically asking for it. >> >> Out of interest, are there really OpenStack public clouds where the cloud >> provider doesn't automatically provision an initial network and router ? >> >> On 26 February 2016 at 11:36, Jeremy Stanley <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 2016-02-26 11:21:47 +0000 (+0000), Matt Jarvis wrote: >>> > From a public cloud perspective I'm not convinced that an opt-out >>> argument >>> > is the right way to go. A router in our context is a chargeable item, >>> > because it has an external IP address, so automatically creating stuff >>> > without the user specifying it is not an ideal outcome. Personally I'd >>> > rather see an opt-in argument ie. option 1 >>> >>> As a user of many public clouds, some of which use Nova network, >>> some of which use Neutron with a common flat provider network, et >>> cetera, _I_ want them to behave consistently when I ask them to boot >>> a node rather than needing to remember that on some subset of them I >>> also need to perform an unholy dance to convince them I really want >>> to have access to the servers I've created. >>> >>> Making it so that some public cloud providers can continue to >>> require completely different business logic than others just to have >>> a reachable server basically shoots any hope we have as a community >>> for consistency and "interoperability" in the head. Cloud providers >>> seem to think that they'll attract me with their unique market >>> differentiating features, but I could really care less. What I want >>> is for OpenStack to succeed by providing a seamless experience where >>> things look as identical as possible no matter what provider or >>> environment I use. OpenStack doesn't need to compete against itself, >>> there is plenty enough competition out there for us already even if >>> we band together in a unity of design and function. >>> -- >>> Jeremy Stanley >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenStack-operators mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators >>> >> >> >> DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenStack-operators mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators >> >> > -- DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
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