Hi :)
> Hi all,
>
> am sorry if this discussion doesnt fit into this topic. I had
> discussed this with many people but yet i havent got an
> answer.I have already posted this at suseforums but i was
> also instructed to interact with mailing lists.So am posting
> it here again...
Let's hope we can answer your doubts.
> After using Linux for some 2 years, and trying Linux From
> Scratch(LFS)/Customizing Knoppix,Slackware/Gentoo and other
> small stuffs, what i found is, there is no common STANDARDS
> followed except for the filesystem & directory hierarchy. You
> can even find each distribution having its own directory
> structure nowadays.Each one is having their own packages.
As others have stated previously, I cannot agree with this statement of yours.
Linux DOES follow standards because if it didn't ... it would have never been
successful. Think for a second of all those developers out there. If they
hadn't follwed standards ... they'd have never gotten anywhere, and we wouldn't
have had Linux. A part from the standards mentioned in previous e-mails, we
also follow: CGL, DCL and Section 508 (IIRC) for accesibility.
> Now take Windows - here i want to tell something, Please dont
> consider windows as THE ENEMY.Why do Linux people hate
> Windows?, its mainly becoz of the EULA and propeiratory
> stuffs.But just look into their OS.You will find many things
> where it gives u light on how Linux can be enhanced, and
> thats what my discussion is.Just think why Windows is used
> Widely for Desktop...yes i do agree people use Pirated
> Editions...but even then they ARE USING Pirated editions
> rather than going for Linux which is free!
One thing has got nothing to do with the other. Many ideas have been taken from
MS-Windows (and from MacOS, as well as from other OS).
The problem with Microsoft mainly is their monopolistic behaviour, no fair
play, no standards (they IMPOSE their own standards: search the Inet and you'll
see they DON'T plan certifying IE for ACID compatibility, for example).
> First and foremost, why SuSE??...well, i think SuSE has given
> importance in GUI and equally comparable with Microsoft
> Windows for GUI.I have used Xandros also where it is
> competent with both.But think about the Package Management
> System,System Updation and Driver Support and easy to use
> system controls and even the Menu System.
Let's answer with another question: why not? We're in this list because we like
SUSE, some of us have used other distros and feel more comfortable with SUSE.
Some of us maybe are also using other distros and don't prefer one over the
other or maybe prefer one distro for one situation and another one for another
situation. We DON'T impose you SUSE, we suggest you try SUSE and if you don't
like it ... no problem. If you do like it ... well nice to know :)
IMHO SUSE is one of the most stable and comfortable distros to use and
administrate. Not only that, it's got GREAT scalability (our customers need
that), great performance and great tools. For example YaST2. For those that
don't know, YaST2 is NOT only a nice GUI to manage your SW, HW and users. It's
a tool that is CIM compliant ... that's GREAT if you're an ISV and GREAT if
your a customer of those ISVs porting to Linux.
> PMS
> ===
>
> here i think RPM/Debian are becoming the common standard in
> the linux industry and whereever u go, u will find your
> package either in RPM/Debian.But wait?..is there a SINGLE
> CLICK install??...yeah i have read about the Klick which SuSE
> is trying out.Thats an amazing thing.
>
> What about un-installation?...it is not easy to un-install a
> package becoz of the dependency problem.This is a real
> disadvantage for linux users.Many of my friends install a lot
> in their linux distribution very easily but they dont
> un-install because they fear, that may affect the system.
Do your friends comfortably install and unistall everything that falls into
their hands under MS-Windows? What happens when they do? Let me guess ... every
now and then they format and re-install. This is NOT very common in a Unix
system since you've got a packaging system that warns you about dependencies or
inconsistencies. MS-Windows DOES NOT warn you ... well, it does, but it doesn't
tell you what's wrong it just says: "Do you want to uninstall XXXXXX.DLL that
might be used by another application". What application? In RPM and DEB systems
you get a "Packacge ABC can't be removed because package DEF needs it". See the
difference? In RPM and DEB based systems you KNOW what packages depend on other
ones (you can even check before uninstalling) while in MS-Windows you DO NOT
know which SW dependes on that DLL. Only God knows what will happen in a
MS-Windows environment. In a Unix system you KNOW who/when/where/what/why and
how things happen and, most important of all: it's YOU who decides ;)
[...]
> System Updation
> ===========
>
> i think the above said idea would deal with System updation also....
Been using SUSE Linux since 1995 and NEVER had a problem updating. Not kidding,
it's true. Same goes for Debian. I do admit that I've had 1 problem updating
Gentoo ... but that was my fault. Since then I haven't had problems with Gentoo
(once in 3 years) either (learnt my lesson 0:).
> Menu System
> =========
>
> Ok, the menu system right now in Linux is, u group all the
> applications in their Service Groups.This is ok for a linux
I don't understand what "Service Group" is.
> user but think of the new user, they will feel
> uncomfortable.So i think , there should be some easy to use
> Menu System for a new user so that he is not confused with
> what all applications have been installed and also the
> administrator menu items should not be displayed while a
> normal user has logged in which would increase the security even more!
Glad you talk about this. SUSE also follows the XDG menu standard (I think it's
XDG) so that all menus under all GUIs that follow that standard have the same
menu.
BTW, have you ever wonderd WHY people think MS is the EASY way to work with?
Honestly, I've been 10 years without touching a single MS-Windows machine til
now. And I find it harder to work on a MS-Windows machine than on a Unix
machine. I'm not the only one. The guy that sits next to me at work has been
working with Unix (Irix and Linux specially) as well as with MS-Windows for
over 10 years and says the same as I do.
MS-Windows has NO logical behaviour: it just does things, you don't know why
(neither does MS). For example: how can you administrate an OS without a shell
(and associated utilities: grep, sort, wc, ...)? Why do you NEED a monitor,
keyboard & mouse to install and administrate an OS? Has MS ever heard of
headless machines?
Why do we HAVE to work as you do in MS-Windows? MacOS doesn't and nobody goes
around saying "Oh, MaCOS has no future because it's completely different to
MS-Windows". And don't say it's not different because for starters it's mouse
has only got one button ;)
> Well, people might ask me that telling things would not work
> out and have to do something!..yeah here we are a team where
> we are working with LFS and trying to make a distribution
> exactly as what i discussed above.But till now i havent got
> into any discussion with any forums about these....and am
> also happy if i can try implementing these on SuSE but how??....
I ask you again, why do we HAVE to work/behave as a MS-Windows system? Why do
things HAVE to be done a la MS? It's the most complicated OS I've ever used,
it's NOT user friendly, it has NO logical structure/behaviour, it is VERY
uncomfortable to administrate, if you DON'T HAVE MS tools ... you CAN'T access
YOUR data (.pst files, for example). Why would anyone WANT a Unix system to
behave like a MS system?
I can get you a bunch of people that HATE computers and LOVE Linux simply
because it let's them get their work done. NO, I'm not talking about BSOD, I'm
talking about not having stress ;)
Sorry for such a long e-mail 0:)
Rafa
--
Rafa Grimán
Systems Engineer
Silicon Graphics Spain
Santa Engracia , 120 - Planta Baja 28003 Madrid, Spain
Tel: +34 91 3984200
Fax: +34 91 3984201
Móvil: +34 628 117 940
http://www.sgi.com
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