-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Viras wrote: > >> Well I think they just wanted a decision - maybe they made it a bit to >> quick >> but I can somehow understand it. As I said I'm not too happy with it >> either >> but we will see how it works out. The openSUSE staff is really nice and >> actually cares about what we have to say, but at some point there had >> to be a >> decision made. We will see how it works :). > > _IF_ it works. If it works.
If it doesn't, we'll change the approach. We've been dragging this thread endlessly since weeks and weeks now, with no decision nor decisive points for the one or the other way. At least now there is some kind of decision, or proposal thereof. I'm pretty sure that we'd still be "discussing" the matter in 6 months if we kept on that way. As a community, we must also understand that everyone can't have it his own way all the time. If there's a decision you don't like, well, that's where you have to show that you're really part of that community as well as your commitment, and keep working for the good of it anyway. It's a bit like sport: it's easy to support a team that wins all the time. Real, committed supporters keep their faith and commitment to their club even when they loose. While I'm not saying that we've "lost" anything, I like this analogy to say that even when it's a decision you don't like, please keep committed and help as you can. This web forum topic is a perfect example of a decision where we can't have it everyone's way. At least I'm pretty sure everyone is aware from the endless discussions we've had on this that there isn't such a way. > It is not a matter of decision, but a matter of making. > And as I have followed the discussion here, I see no moderator quality > amongst the pro voters yet. > Maybe a consequence is: Novell/SUSE has to hire (and pay!) some good > moderators from the existing forums now - lacking their own. > This I would call a positive side effect of a negative decision, and it > could some up the whole thing as positive. ;-)) The moderators must come from the community. While, of course, having a few people from SUSE/Novell also spend some time on moderation, they should do that as members of the openSUSE community. Proven forum moderators _from the community_ must take on that role. I think it's about time that we stop making this difference between Novell employees and non-Novell employees on every topic. We're all part of the openSUSE community, that's the essential idea about it. While of course on some topics it makes a difference, it doesn't with everything, and in some time it won't do at all. Anyhow, I'm a bit shocked by and sad about all those harsh words. Regardless of the path being chosen for the web forums, the real issue at hand is that we have to build bridges between the existing community parts. The SUSE Linux community has been existing since years and years, but as there was lacking some central channel that could only come from SUSE/Novell, those community "parts" are rather isolated and don't talk to each other much. Let me just pick one example from my own experience to illustrate it: linux-club.de hosts the largest german-speaking web forum about SUSE Linux. While everyone knows I have pretty much the largest package repository for SUSE Linux after Packman, and a lot of people are using my RPMs, I've seen several times that people were talking about issues with a package of mine or a conflict between my packages and e.g. those from Packman. But I never (and I mean *never, ever*) got any mail from anyone (except once from oc2pus) telling me like "hey, seems there's some issue with your amarok package on the forum, could you please have a look ?" That's the real issue we have to address. That's what we have to work on. (not specifically about my RPMs, I mean communication in general ;)) Let's all get closer together, let's talk to each other, let's find common communication media. Don't forget that the pieces of our puzzle are slowly moving towards each other, with things being put into place slowly but surely. We have to push those pieces so they connect as soon as possible. And the connectors are not fixed, they are *people*. It's us. You, me, everyone involved. So we can make all the parts of the puzzle connect to each other nicely, because it's just a matter of us taking the right shape (please exclude any sexual analogy ;)). And please, Eberhard, you know all the respect I have for you and your hard work for our community, it truly is invaluable, but please re-read your mails twice and don't use such harsh words, it's not helping anyone nor any cause. As probably everyone knows, I'm very committed to this community, and those words really hurt me. And hence I assume it did for a lot of other people as well. Also, Keith, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and other people from existing web forums who are on this list: please do *not* feel offended by the direction that is being taken at the moment. You are also invaluable to the community, and we all need you, your experience and your endless work and commitment. We're all putting a lot of brain, heart and sleepless nights into this collective work so let's please play nice to each other. Thank you. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEAukvr3NMWliFcXcRAlTQAKCSVmKRVMOiyZXK1AD/jkRLfoITsACgjiW+ sysNgRAkpwrzQk5XqhzWmVI= =5IEE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
