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Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 04 June 2006 17:04, Pascal Bleser wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> Randall, could you just please stop being so aggressive...
>
> You think _I_ am being aggressive? I'm not the one throwing boilerplate
> spam in the face of everyone who posts a technical question telling
> them to go away.
Again, for the 20th time or so, it's not "boilerplate spam".
It's because this list is not intended to be used for technical support
questions like "my screen goes blank on installation" or "help! my
printer doesn't work".
suse-linux-e is dedicated to such topics, and it would be pointless of
having such mails here, because
1) splitting people and help between 2 lists is only counter-productive
for several reasons (number of people, no information flow about
existing replies in the archives, etc...)
2) this list would drown into such topics and we'd have no list where to
discuss things around the community (even if you don't know what that
is, we do)
That "boilerplate spam" is just kindly asking people to please go to the
appropriate list, where they'll be best helped.
And, as said a couple of times already, if you don't think its tone is
kind enough, please help us make it better, because the intention
certainly is to have it so.
> It took me forever to get an answer to a simple question, and then it
> turns out to be utterly at odds with the words ("the community") that
> keep getting repeated ad nauseum in an attempt to shut people up.
No. It just seems you don't know what it is.
I'm really surprised to see someone in the Linux/OpenSource ecosystem
not knowing what the concept of "community" is.
> How on earth does an attempt to get an answer to a simple question get
> labelled as "aggressive?" People here are essentially trying to censor
> others who have been granted access to the list. _That_ is aggressive!
Again, your tone is really aggressive, to say the least.
And where are you seeing censorship ?
C'mon, this is ridiculous, please come down and let's discuss this on a
normal tone. Relax, go for a walk, take a deep breath and read this mail
again, there's nothing aggressive nor offensive in it, we're all friends
here ;)
> Just come clean and restrict membership to people who won't ask
> questions you don't want to see.
No one is restricting "membership" in any way.
Everyone is free to subscribe to this list and take part in it, actively
or not. It's just not meant for technical support topics, that's all.
There are a lot more people subscribed to suse-linux-e, so the chances
that people get good help over there is much bigger than on this list.
Again, we're (*) just sending people a reply that kindly asks them to
post their question on a different list, that's more dedicated, more
appropriate and in better conditions to help them successfully.
What does it have to do with censorship ?
(*) and I'm explicitly saying "we" because although houghi is the only
one who has sent those emails up to now, others would so as well; I
think pretty much everyone agrees with that idea and supports houghi in
doing this.. but that was already mentioned in a few other mails in this
thread
>> The community is NOT only about the SUSE Linux distribution.
>>
>> It's also about 3rd package repositories (like Packman or mine, or
>> the many others), it's about promoting the community and the
>> distribution, it's about being present at events, writing and
>> maintaining
>> documentation, bringing people together, writing software for and
>> around the distribution, coordinating efforts, etc...
>
> Yes, but it's not about _the people_ ("the community"). It's about the
> process of creating the distribution and issues that arise therein. The
> term being used is irreconcilable with the definition profferred.
Of course it's about the people.
I somehow have the feeling you just totally don't get what all this is
about. That's sad.
>> This is not just a Linux distribution.
>
> What, then? Are people really coming here for comraderie?
Yes, indeed. What are you doing here, are you here for money ? Are you
being paid for being on this list ? I don't think so ;)
Since several years, I'm building packages for a few SUSE Linux
versions, I maintain the 2nd largest 3rd party package repository for
SUSE users. It's being used a lot, by a vast number of SUSE Linux users.
Amongst a few other things, that's my contribution to the SUSE Linux
users - dare I say, the community - and I do that in my spare time, I'm
not paid for doing it (and it's actually taking a lot of my time).
So, yes, I'm definitely here for the fun of it, for helping others.
Does that sound so strange ?
If it does, then I guess you're just using SUSE Linux like you'd be
using Windows, just that it's free of charge and, of course, much better
from a technical point of view.
That's fine, but please don't question or bash people who see and are
active in everything that's around the SUSE Linux distribution.
It's very much about
- - the people,
- - non-technical topics, such as taking part in events (FOSDEM, LinuxTag,
...)
- - initiatives and projects
- - "political" topics: choice of directions, services, communication
- - promoting openSUSE.org and SUSE Linux
Of course it's also a lot about technical topics and support, but there
are dedicated lists for handling that, to avoid drowning:
- - suse-linux-e
- - opensuse-factory
- - opensuse-packaging
- - opensuse-buildservice
- - opensuse-wiki
- - opensuse-documentation
This list some sort of central information coordination channel about
what's happening on other topics, communication channels between parts
of the community (e.g. the people who run web forums about SUSE Linux),
publishing and discussing important news and information (to feed it to
people present on other mailing-lists, IRC channels and web forums
around SUSE Linux), etc...
At least, that's my understanding of this list and while we're not quite
there yet for all of the points above, that's what I'd like it to
become. I think most people here share the same idea, at least for most
of the items.
I'd picture it like this:
,---- push information here ([email protected])
v
| |
web forums <--+ |
| +--> IRC support (#suse, #opensuse, ...)
| |
suse-linux-e <--+ |
| +--> Novell staff
| |
>> cheers
>
> There's another abuse of English... Call someone aggressive and end with
> "cheers."
Well, I wasn't aggressive at all. If you got that impression, too bad,
it wasn't meant that way (and this mail isn't either).
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
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