Moin! Am Sonntag, 4. Juni 2006 16:28 schrieb Andreas Hanke: > > A KDE-bug will be in the build-service, as well as in the > > factory-packages, so it does not matter which ones one uses. > > No, the packages will not behave the same and yes, it does matter which > ones are used.
You try too hard to read something into my text. There are a lot of bugs which are simply KDE-bugs, e.g. that kmail bug with loosing the settings. No matter whether you build an RPM and install it, or compile from source, that bug is there, i.e. both things have the same bug. Building a package does not fix any bugs, it can only add them, unless of course a patch is applied. > > Especially since people report most KDE-bugs to KDE ond not Novell. > > The kscreensaver problem was reported three times to bugzilla.novell.com > today (181121, 181122, 181585). And even worse, most people are > reporting problems neither at bugs.kde.org nor at bugzilla.novell.com, > but in user forums where they don't help at all, together with > complaints, complaints and complaints that the extra service nobody paid > for is so bad and that the so-called "official updates" are broken. This is partly Novell's fault. in bugs.kde.org one enters the issue-title and then gets a list of bugs that the one reported could be a duplicate of, I guess they implemented that for a reason. Another possibility would be to have some people from the community to read over bugs and kill off all the duplicates, non-reproducable and logs lacking bugs before the actual devs spend time on them. Regarding the reporting of the "official updates'" bugs. Since those bugs, according to your definition should not be reported to novell anyway, because they are part of an unofficial service, it does not matter whether they are reported on forums. In fact, from your point of view all of those bugs should be posted to forums instead of novell's bugzilla or mailinglists, since that way they do not bother the developers at novell. You really have to make up your mind and decide whether you want bugs of the build-service packages being reported at novell, or somewhere else, where they do not bother anyone. Another thing is, those packages are part of the psychological contract SuSE has with its users, no matter whether they are official, or not. If this was not the case, why does Novell not just scrap them, if they just cause anger and pain to everybody and have no value? > > I said "hardly any", if you search the archives you will find that YOU is > > not supplying bugfix-releases but just some bugfixes which are considered > > important enough. > > The solution is using factory or RCs shortly before a release and > reporting all bugs to prevent that they go into the release at all. Then > one can really seriously claim that one helped improving the quality of > the next release. Otherwise it's difficult. Sorry, but most people got a job to do and cannot take some free time to intensively test while RCs are provided and certainly do not have the time to install a second system just to look for bugs in KDE. Most people find those bugs while simply using KDE and because they do some extra testing. So your solution is only for people who a) have enough space to set up a second system, b) have spare time to play in a non-productive system (as one should not move email and other serious work to a RC and hence cannot test it while just spending the normal amount of time at it), c) are willing to test the while new thing and not just one part of it, or are employed to do so. Not too many fall into that category. > > I am not sure if it was backported, but there is for > > example a bug in kmail that was fixed in 3.5.3 and leads to it loosing > > folder-settings when it quits, very annoying, yet not a security or > > critical bugfix. > > I believe that data loss bugs are severe enough to justify a YOU. In > this case, verifying that the bug is really present in the official > packages and politely asking for a YOU if it is might be an interesting > option - keyword being "politely". If the request sounds like "You must > [...]" instead of "Could you [...]", chances are lower that it will be > done, not higher. As that attitude does not apply to me, I wonder why you mention it. > > Since bugfix-releases of NLD and SLD, apparently including KDE-versions, > > are supplied they are possible. > > NLD and SLED are enterprise products. They have a different licensing > scheme and a different level of support than what is usually called "the > box"/openSUSE. As you might know, [opensuse] is about "the box" and not > about enterprise products. Whoever needs enterprise level support can > feel free to purchase enterprise products. So? All I stated was: it is possible, especially if one of those enterprise products is based on a SuSE Linux version. > No, seriously: The problem here is not that people are confusing > development packages with bugfix releases, the problem is really the > tone. If people say "I am using development packages for production > purposes and have a problem, please have a look at it", it's perfectly > OK, but if people accuse developers claiming that nothing is right about > 10.1 because the so-called "bugfixes" are bad, there's something wrong. I did not do that, so that is not my problem. Novell lost some credebility by releasing that Zen-thingy as "stable" and I guess nobody will try telling me that that bit of the distri is worth the SuSE on the box, but anyway. I'll just wait till it gets fixed and did my part by reporting all bugs I found concerning that little piece of software. > > So Novell is advertising that it supplies an extra value called risk? Who > > would "sell" risk as something valueable, apart from > > adventure-travel-companies? > > I don't read an advertisement there, it sounds more like a disclaimer. > > > Ein bisschen Schwund ist immer. > > This is an English speaking list. So? Have you never seen a English idom or saying on a German list? What about Latin, or Esperanto, would that be ok for you? Honestly, you seem a bit picky. > No, really: Yesterday I had a closer look at what is currently there in > the build service just to find out that the amarok package from there is > 19 MB compressed and ca. 100 MB on disk after installation. Guess why, > it is compiled with full debug information and not stripped. It's close > to ridiculous that people are confusing them with bugfix updates. Well, since you seem to not have used supplementary or build-service before, you fell for that bug and thought it would be the intended state, bad luck. Yet even if, just because it is compiled with full debug, it does not mean that it does not fix bugs, so again, do not try too hard to descredit people by telling them that they behave close to ridiculousness. I fully agree that people should always behave politely. I totally disagree that one should tell anyone that tries to help by reporting bugs, no matter whether some of those are packaging-issues or not, to bugger off and come back if s/he is seriously into testing and has the time to install a second system, i.e. using factory (which might contain alpha version) or RCs and alike. I think one should be happy that people start reporting bugs, of course they will report some non-existing, there will be some that just rant but there certainly will be a few which take the build-service as a starting point and then maybe even test RCs. Sven --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
