Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to

Hani Suleiman Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:46:56 -0800

Don't try to seduce me with your honeyed words! I shall resist!

On Dec 14, 2003, at 10:36 PM, Jason Carreira wrote:

We're always open to contributions, even from you Hani :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to


Good job, with more contributions like this the ww2 codebase might be
even be considering by us skeptics one day.

On Dec 14, 2003, at 7:20 PM, Fredrik Lindgren wrote:

As a matter of fact it was fairly easy to refactor it. As

promised, I

took a shot at the refactoring during the weekend. I have

managed to

build and deploy a modified webwork-examples.war not including the
velocity jar. Removing the velocity jar was only done for
verification. I have nothing against the use of velocity in

webwork.

It just was a bit too tightly coupled for my taste.

I have not yet had time to produce the patch files for my

changes, but

I intend to fix the last changes and send them to the list

some time

tomorrow night.

In short my goal for the refactoring has been to enable pluggable
template handling implementations while keeping existing use intact.
- My changes work with the existing UI templates with no need for
additional configuration. (It defaults to velocity)
- The changes allow for overriding the implementation used

as default,

and on a tag by tag basis. To enable this I reintroduced the suffix
attribute for the tags and removed the ".vm" extension from the
current template names in the UI tags.
- The AbstractUITag now extends a new AbstractTemplateTag.

This moves

the template handling code away from the XHTML specific attributes,
which seem like a good idea any way. This allows webwork users to
develop their own template based tags for areas other than

HTML forms.


Best Regards
Fredrik Lindgren


That said, I don't personally know exactly what webwork is using
velocity
for behind the scenes, so I don't know exactly how much effort is
involved
in refactoring. If it's easy, then fine, I'm all for cutting down
unnecessary dependencies. But if it's a lot of hassle, I

think that

it's not
worth the effort to remove the dependency. It would be

great if there

were
no dependencies at all, but that's just not possible; if

velocity or

some
other library is performing core functionality that couldn't be
handled
otherwise, then it deserves to remain a core dependency.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Hani
Suleiman
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 5:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to

I disagree. I think the point he's making is 'if I don't

want to use

velocity templates, I should not need velocity'. Equivelant
statements
are:
'if I don't want to use ognl-expressions, I should not

need ognl' 'if

I don't want to use jasper reports, I should not need

jasper reports'

'if I don't want to use oracle, I should not need to install it'

On Dec 12, 2003, at 8:47 AM, Drew McAuliffe wrote:

Unfortunately, that's like saying if I don't like

commons-logging, I

shouldn't be forced to use it. Or if I don't like ognl, I

shouldn't

be forced to use it. You can't make every dependency in

the library

pluggable.
The only reason I could see velocity becoming a barrier

to your work

with webwork would be if the dependency forced you to

write velocity

templates.
It does not. If you never want to touch a velocity

template ever with

webwork, you don't have to. But you need the jar file

because it is

used behind the scenes for some work. If you're not being

forced to

use velocity templates, then webwork shouldn't be forced

to remove

the
dependency on something it uses for its internals just because you
don't happen to like it.

It sounds to me like you're confused about what the velocity
dependency means. It doesn't mean you don't have a choice in
presentation methods, because you do (Freemarker, JSP,

velocity). If

you want to use the ui tags, then you may want to know about
velocity to understand the templates or provide your own. If you
don't want to use them, then fine, don't, and you'll

never be forced

to even look at a velocity template.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Behalf

Of
remigijus
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 4:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Snell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to

On Dec 11, 2003, at 1:22 PM, Jason Carreira wrote:

WW1 you can use without velocity, WW2 uses velocity for

its UI tag

templates. If you don't plan to use the UI tags, you can remove
it.


You can use WW2 and just use JSPs and never have to write any
Velocity templates. However, Velocity is still there

lurking in the

dark helping you out.


Ok I'm happy to get velocity in help when I need it, but I don't
want to be forced to do that. You can say siple don't use

it. Ok I

already doing that. But we are tolking about ww2 design

issues. It

has to be clear and if it's addition, evryone should now

that is not

ww2 but just another additional feature. And as I see some people
also rising some questions about use of freemaker instead of
velocity. I think I'm not only one person who think in this way.

Forget about what is already, done, think again is it

better to have

it as option or let's say in the core of ww. Try to be objective,
don't be inertic (inertia - I don't know how to write it

in english

in correct way, I hope you eill undertand).


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--
Fredrik Lindgren


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