I did not manage to get to this before heading out on maternity leave, so I 
will change my ballot to abstain and have you all handle it as you wish.

Thanks,
Alissa

On Feb 23, 2015, at 5:11 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Alissa,
> 
> Let me try to address the issues that you are raising. The coman team worked 
> as a non-WG team for about 2-3 years, and only at the last phase of the work 
> decided to send the two resulting informational documents to the OPSAWG for a 
> broader review and exposure, at the advice of our AD. The two documents are 
> informational, one describes the use cases and the second one the 
> requirements for the broader space discussed by the use cases related to 
> management of networks with constrained devices.. One of the conclusions of 
> the work is that we do not believe that there is one single solution that 
> would fit all use cases, this there is no single set of mandatory 
> requirements that apply to all the use cases. No follow-up work is planned in 
> OPS. We feel however that the two informational documents will be useful for 
> further reference for these teams or WGs that try to build management 
> solutions for one or more of the use cases. 
> 
> In order to make the goals of the document more clear we suggest the 
> following edits: 
> 
> In Abstract: 
> 
> OLD: 
> 
>  This document provides a problem statement, deployment and management
>   topology options as well as potential requirements for the management
>   of networks where constrained devices are involved.
> 
> NEW: 
> 
>  This document provides a problem statement, deployment and management
>   topology options as well as requirements addressing the different use cases 
> of 
>   the management of networks where constrained devices are involved.
> 
> In Section 1.1: 
> 
> OLD: 
> 
>  This document provides a problem statement and lists potential
>   requirements for the management of a network with constrained
>   devices.  Section 1.3 and Section 1.5 describe different topology
>   options for the networking and management of constrained devices.
>   Section 2 provides a problem statement on the issue of the management
>   of networked constrained devices.  Section 3 lists requirements on
>   the management of applications and networks with constrained devices.
>   Note that the requirements listed in Section 3 have been separated
>   from the context in which they may appear.  Depending on the concrete
>   circumstances, an implementer may decide to address a certain
>   relevant subset of the requirements.
> 
>   The use cases in the context of networks with constrained devices can
>   be found in the companion document [COM-USE].
> 
> NEW: 
> 
>   This document provides a problem statement and lists requirements for the 
>   different use cases of management of a network with constrained
>   devices.  Section 1.3 and Section 1.5 describe different topology
>   options for the networking and management of constrained devices.
>   Section 2 provides a problem statement on the issue of the management
>   of networked constrained devices.  Section 3 lists requirements on
>   the management of applications and networks with constrained devices.
>   Note that the requirements listed in Section 3 have been separated
>   from the context in which they may appear.  Depending on the concrete
>   circumstances, an implementer may decide to address a certain
>   relevant subset of the requirements.
> 
>   The use cases in the context of networks with constrained devices can
>   be found in the companion document [COM-USE]. This informational 
>   document provides a list of objectives for discussions and does not aim 
>   to be a strict requirements document for all use cases. In fact, there 
> likely 
>   is not a single solution that works equally well for all the use cases.
> 
> 
> Thanks and Regards,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 1:55 AM
>> To: The IESG
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; draft-ietf-opsawg-coman-
>> [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-coman-probstate-reqs-
>> 04: (with DISCUSS)
>> 
>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-opsawg-coman-probstate-reqs-04: Discuss
>> 
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email
>> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this 
>> introductory
>> paragraph, however.)
>> 
>> 
>> Please refer to https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
>> 3A__www.ietf.org_iesg_statement_discuss-
>> 2Dcriteria.html&d=AwICaQ&c=BFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=I4dzGxR31Oc
>> NXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&m=LRTLiND5zLlekWUmsFoaVKjkrugZ
>> M-KnuAq0u86hymQ&s=eJjAd-
>> BOQzGyu9hy1bhI6vQIl7xsHAWMzBLsPjwGVPU&e=
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>> 
>> 
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
>> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dopsawg-2Dcoman-
>> 2Dprobstate-
>> 2Dreqs_&d=AwICaQ&c=BFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=I4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQ
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>> KnuAq0u86hymQ&s=KmEim4gFKCTNKbrps2bQskPznlkrThRg-
>> bO0gjTvxEM&e=
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> DISCUSS:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> I'm putting this in as a DISCUSS in the event that the authors/WG want to
>> discuss it or that I'm just missing some context, but I will happily move
>> to ABSTAIN if there is no appetite for such discussion -- I see no need
>> to block the document from advancing on the basis of my comments.
>> 
>> It's really hard to tell how the "requirements" listed in this document
>> are intended to be used. In fact, it seems incorrect to call them
>> "requirements" at all -- in the sense of somehow being "required" --
>> given the following:
>> 
>>   This document provides a problem statement and lists potential
>>   requirements for the management of a network with constrained
>>   devices. ... Depending on the concrete
>>   circumstances, an implementer may decide to address a certain
>>   relevant subset of the requirements.
>> ...
>>   This document in general
>>   does not recommend the realization of any subset of the described
>>   requirements.  As such this document avoids selecting any of the
>>   requirements as mandatory to implement.  A device might be able to
>>   provide only a particular selected set of requirements and might not
>>   be capable to provide all requirements in this document.  On the
>>   other hand a device vendor might select a specific relevant subset of
>>   the requirements to implement.
>> 
>> It's hard to see how the approach described above will contribute towards
>> useful standardization. The "requirements" seem more like a laundry list
>> of all the properties that a management architecture, management
>> protocols, networks of constrained devices, and/or individual
>> implementations might find desirable.
>> 
>> This also makes me wonder how the WG intends for these "requirements"
>> to
>> be used. What is the next step as far as standardization goes? To design
>> the "management architecture" that is mentioned? Or the "management
>> protocols" that are mentioned -- one or more, working together or
>> separately? Or to consider how existing management protocols can be
>> repurposed for constrained networks (which is sort of hinted at in
>> section 2, but not stated explicitly), to meet some undefined subset of
>> the listed "requirements"?
>> 
>> I think publishing a laundry list of desirable properties is ok if people
>> find value in it, but I'm having trouble seeing how this document
>> specifies either a problem statement or requirements that will somehow
>> contribute to standardization efforts in the future.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

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