Hi Paul/Benoit,

I wonder too who wrote RFC 8911 :-(

Unless someone is willing to write a rfc8911-bis and fix the format/template, I 
am grinding my teeth and accepting the format as is.🧐

Cheers.

> On Jun 11, 2025, at 6:36 AM, Benoit Claise 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Thanks for the quick reaction.
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2025 3:06 PM, Aitken, Paul wrote:
>> Benoit,
>> 
>> 
>> I suggest removing section 4 as sections 6.2.x contain a superset of the 
>> same information.
> Fine
>> 
>> 
>> For sections 3.1.1.2 - 3.1.2, the draft reads like it's filling a form; it 
>> does not read well as a stand-alone document. If someone would refer back to 
>> this in future, the information they need would be spread across many 
>> sections of the document.
> It's actually just "filling a form".  A painful form, I agree, according to 
> RFC 8911 with the guidelines in RFC 6390. I wonder who wrote those RFCs? ;-) 
> Michele Cotton still hates me for the IPFIX and Performance Metric 
> registries, and remind me at every single meeting ;-)
> 
> The end goal is the IANA registrations, not this document, IMO. Hence my 
> early discussion with IANA, to make sure they were fine.
> Unless the AD insists, I would be reluctant to make the change. I am afraid I 
> would have duplicate much of the following content (all entries in the 
> template), with just a few changes:
>     3.1.1.  Summary . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   7
>        3.1.2.  Description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   8
>        3.1.3.  Reference . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   8
>        3.1.4.  Change Controller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9
>        3.1.5.  Version of Registry Format  . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9
>      3.2.  Metric Definition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9
>        3.2.1.  Reference Definition  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9
>        3.2.2.  Fixed Parameters  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   9
>      3.3.  Method of Measurement . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10
>        3.3.1.  Reference Methods . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10
>        3.3.2.  Packet Stream Generation  . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10
>        3.3.3.  Traffic Filtering (Observation) Details . . . . . . .  10
>        3.3.4.  Sampling Distribution . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  10
>        3.3.5.  Runtime Parameters and Data Format  . . . . . . . . .  10
>        3.3.6.  Roles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  11
>      3.4.  Output  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  11
>        3.4.1.  Type  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  12
>        3.4.2.  Reference Definition  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  12
>        3.4.3.  Administrative Items  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  14
>        3.4.4.  Comments and Remarks  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  15
> Not sure the draft is going to read any better, as the reader will have to 
> back and forth if the entries are similar with min,max,mean,sum
>> 
>> Citing "it was already done badly in another RFC" is a disappointing excuse.
>> 
>> 
>> Otherwise, please apply the changes.
> Thanks and regards, Benoit
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> P.
>> 
>> From: Benoit Claise <[email protected]> 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2025 13:45
>> To: Aitken, Paul <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>; Mahesh 
>> Jethanandani <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>; 
>> [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]><[email protected]>
>>  <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Cc: opsawg-chairs <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>; 
>> opsawg <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: AD review of 
>> draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17
>> 
>> Hi Paul,
>> 
>> Thomas addressed some feedback already in 
>> https://author-tools.ietf.org/diff?doc_1=draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17&url_2=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/network-analytics/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry/refs/heads/main/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-18.txt
>>  [author-tools.ietf.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://author-tools.ietf.org/diff?doc_1=draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17&url_2=https:**Araw.githubusercontent.com*network-analytics*draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry*refs*heads*main*draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-18.txt__;Ly8vLy8vLy8!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFFR0WjKwg$>
>> 
>> So I'll keep only the remaining items in this email thread.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 3.1.1.2 - 3.1.2
>> 
>> The document should define and request one metric at a time, rather than 
>> providing bulk inputs.
>> 
>> At least the Name, URI, Description, and Units should be grouped per metric, 
>> because the current format provides no relation between these values.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We actually followed the RFC 8912 section 4.1.x. So we believe we're safe on 
>> that front, as IANA already process a similar RFC.
>> Note: the RFC 8912 is the first and only RFC that populates 
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/performance-metrics/performance-metrics.xhtml
>>  [iana.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.iana.org/assignments/performance-metrics/performance-metrics.xhtml__;!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFGpRr6UnQ$>.
>>  Also I discussed this specific draft with IANA already.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 3.4.2.5 Why are the PM metrics measured in seconds (with a resolution of 
>> 1ns) while the IPFIX IEs are in Microseconds?
>> 
>> There was no mention that they are incompatible, nor any discussion of how 
>> to convert between them.
>> Well spot.
>> OLD:
>> 3.4.2.5. [datatracker.ietf.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17*section-3.4.2.5__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFHmeEkp6Q$>Metric
>>  Units [datatracker.ietf.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17*name-metric-units__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFFxu5yUEA$>
>> Mean
>> Min
>> Max
>> Sum
>> The one-way delay of the IP Flow singleton is expressed in seconds.
>> 
>> 
>> NEW:
>> 3.4.2.5. [datatracker.ietf.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17*section-3.4.2.5__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFHmeEkp6Q$>Metric
>>  Units [datatracker.ietf.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-on-path-telemetry-17*name-metric-units__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFFxu5yUEA$>
>> Mean
>> Min
>> Max
>> Sum
>> The one-way delay of the IP Flow singleton is expressed in microseconds.
>> 
>> OLD (4 instances):
>> 
>> The time value of the result is expressed in units of seconds, as a positive 
>> value of type decimal64 with fraction digits = 9 (similar to the decimal64 
>> in YANG, Section 9.3 [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6020*section-9.3__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFEf4Rdpvw$>
>>  of [RFC6020 [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6020__;!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFFB5HhsbQ$>])
>>  with a resolution of 0.000000001 seconds (1.0 ns), and with lossless 
>> conversion to/from the 64-bit NTP timestamp as per Section 6 
>> [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5905*section-6__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFEwygPnrg$>
>>  of [RFC5905 [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5905__;!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFGBckR8yg$>].
>> NEW:
>> The time value of the result is expressed in units of seconds, as a positive 
>> value of type decimal64 with fraction digits = 9 (similar to the decimal64 
>> in YANG, Section 9.3 [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6020*section-9.3__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFEf4Rdpvw$>
>>  of [RFC6020 [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6020__;!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFFB5HhsbQ$>])
>>  with a resolution of 0.000001 seconds (1.0 microsecond), and with lossless 
>> conversion to/from the 64-bit NTP timestamp as per Section 6 
>> [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5905*section-6__;Iw!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFEwygPnrg$>
>>  of [RFC5905 [rfc-editor.org] 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5905__;!!OSsGDw!LQPkow8moMoM3yyCIykKWuwgb17k751knnoaT7ia1LWf22waMzjI9O4QRNrvZsLu41nxTvNS9iH7KFGBckR8yg$>].
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Section 4. Is this section necessary? These definitions repeat those in 
>> section 6, except that the line, "according to 
>> OWDelay_HybridType1_Passive_IP_RFC[RFC-to-be]_Seconds_* in the IANA 
>> Performance Metric Registry." is missing.
>> We could remove it
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 6.1 "with the four templates defined in Section 3."
>> 
>> It was not clear that section 3 defined four templates.
>> OLD:
>> 3.  Performance Metrics
>> 
>>    This section defines the new performance metrics following the
>>    template defined in Section 11 of [RFC8911].
>> 
>> NEW:
>> 
>> 3.  Performance Metrics
>> 
>>    This section defines four the new performance metrics following the
>>    template defined in Section 11 of [RFC8911].
>> If fine with you, I'll apply the changes.
>> 
>> Thanks and regards, Benoit


Mahesh Jethanandani
[email protected]






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