Hi,

I’ve checked through -26 and compared as best as I can to -25, and submitted 
the review.

I’m happy enough to put a ‘Ready’ tag on it.  It could always be better, but at 
50 pages, I fully understand why shipping it is desirable.  I can’t see 
anything specifically wrong in the text :)

Tim

> On 21 Apr 2021, at 19:36, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Tim, Warren,
> 
> Replying with only the author hat (and after consultation with my co-authors) 
> on this email after having read Warren's and Tim's replies.
> 
> Tim, I do not know whether you remember all the painful journey of this 
> document but the authors do :-) 
> 
> a) the early versions of the I-D included a lot of 'recommendation' wording 
> but the OPSEC WG requested us to remove them (this is also the reason why it 
> is not a BCP)
> 
> b) getting a summary would be a nice idea but, again, to reach the WG 
> consensus, we had to make some recommendation with restrictions and caveats 
> for special cases (e.g., remember the ULA, RA-guard  discussions ?)... hence, 
> I do not think that this is possibly to make a short summary without 
> including the restrictions/specifics ... so the summary list will be very 
> very long and not very useful
> 
> All the other last call comments and the IESG COMMENT points  will be 
> addressed once all feedback is collected,   by either updating the text or 
> explaining our points of view on the comment.
> 
> Thank you again for your review and the discussion
> 
> Regards
> 
> -éric
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Chown <[email protected]>
> Date: Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 15:41
> To: Warren Kumari <[email protected]>
> Cc: Enno Rey <[email protected]>, ops-dir <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" 
> <[email protected]>, opsec wg mailing list <[email protected]>, 
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [OPSEC] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-v6-25
> Resent-From: <[email protected]>
> Resent-To: Eric Vyncke <[email protected]>, Kiran Kumar Chittimaneni 
> <[email protected]>, Merike Kaeo <[email protected]>, 
> <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, Ron Bonica <[email protected]>, 
> <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, Gyan Mishra 
> <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
> Resent-Date: Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 15:41
> 
>    Hi,
> 
>    I’ve not yet seen any comments as proposed by Warren, and the review is 
> due (the deadline was a shorter than usual one).  I can go ahead and look to 
> determine the changes from the diff view.
> 
>    A fairly main point was whether any summary recommendations would be 
> added, given the document’s length, and the variation in style through the 
> document, with some sections having recommendations subsections, others not.  
> There is a lot of good advice in the text, but it’s a long read as is, and 
> there’s likely a couple of pages of key bullet points that could be added.
> 
>    When is the draft coming back to the IESG?
> 
>    Tim
> 
>> On 13 Apr 2021, at 21:59, Warren Kumari <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Just a quick note to say thanks to Tim for the excellent and detailed 
>> review, and to the authors for addressing it...
>> 
>> I took a quick skim through the diffs, and it was a little tricky for me to 
>> tel which all of the comments had been addressed -- authors, if you get a 
>> chance, could you reply noting which comments were folded into -26?
>> W
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 2:46 PM Enno Rey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Tim,
>> 
>> thanks so much for another detailed look at the draft.
>> Your feeling that it has been in the making for a while is correct (tell me 
>> about it ;-), still we think that the operational security guidance for IPv6 
>> hasn't change much over time, and it might even be more needed than ever 
>> (given current momentum of IPv6 uptake).
>> I went through your below points, and for many of them I've performed 
>> according clarifications/enhancements of the draft. A new version has then 
>> been uploaded.
>> 
>> Wish you a great weekend
>> 
>> Enno
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 02:12:37AM -0700, Tim Chown via Datatracker wrote:
>>> Reviewer: Tim Chown
>>> Review result: Has Issues
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I have reviewed this document (draft-ietf-opsec-v6-25) as part of the
>>> Operational directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being
>>> processed by the IESG.?? These comments were written with the intent of
>>> improving the operational aspects of the IETF drafts. Comments that are not
>>> addressed in last call may be included in AD reviews during the IESG 
>>> review.??
>>> Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any 
>>> other
>>> last call comments.
>>> 
>>> This draft analyses operational security issues related to the deployment of
>>> IPv6, and describes appropriate mechanisms and practices to mitigate 
>>> potential
>>> threats.
>>> 
>>> I had previously reviewed the draft as an OPS-DIR Early Review in July 2018,
>>> and again since then, so am familiar with the document and its history.
>>> 
>>> General comments:
>>> 
>>> The document has evolved over time with many topics added, and has an
>>> inevitable ???Frankenstein??? feel to it.  The document would be much 
>>> better for a
>>> rewrite, but that would be significant work, and would delay publication
>>> further.  The material in the document is good, and the advice is valuable, 
>>> so
>>> the focus should be on publishing it sooner rather than later, and thus the
>>> issues with structure are probably best overlooked.
>>> 
>>> An example of the historical evolution of the document are the instances 
>>> where
>>> the same topic os covered multiple times.  This would ideally be avoided.
>>> 
>>> The section most in need of attention is 2.1, where many aspects of 
>>> addressing
>>> are weaved together: allocations, assignments, assignment to hosts, ULAs,
>>> stable and temporary addresses, etc.  This might be better presented as a
>>> section listing addressing related security issues, such as privacy for 
>>> users,
>>> first hop security, network manageability, implications of multi-addressed
>>> hosts, address accountability (which isn???t mentioned here?), avoiding
>>> renumbering (if that is security?), etc.
>>> 
>>> There are also some sections which summarise recommendations, or reinforce
>>> them, and others that do not.  For a document of over 50 pages, which is 
>>> quite
>>> a long read, it would be desirable to have a summary of the key
>>> recommendations, either at the end of each 2nd level topic, or as a 
>>> standalone
>>> section at the end of the document where the key points of each 2nd level 
>>> topic
>>> are summarised.
>>> 
>>> Is it worth citing examples of security toolkits readers can explore, like 
>>> the
>>> THC kit, SI6 Networks, etc, maybe Scapy?
>>> 
>>> Specific comments:
>>> 
>>> p.3
>>> I don???t understand why NPTv6 is mentioned here, this early.  Just say 
>>> that some
>>> security issues have IPv4 equivalents, like ND attacks and ARP attacks, and
>>> some do not, like IPv6 EHs or hop by hop DoS.   The NAT discussion should 
>>> be in
>>> a standalone section, and be neutral there.
>>> 
>>> p.4
>>> Why mention the specific example of multi-homed networks?   What do you 
>>> mean by
>>> the exception?  Is it that multi-homing is out of scope, and so are 
>>> unmanaged
>>> networks?
>>> 
>>> p.4
>>> Again, NPTv6 is mentioned.  This section is titled ???addressing 
>>> architecture???
>>> but this bit of text is about reasons for going PA, PI, or becoming an LIR,
>>> which is not architecture.
>>> 
>>> p.4
>>> In the 7934 para, RFC8981 should be mentioned as it???s a significant 
>>> reason of
>>> devices having more addresses.
>>> 
>>> p.5
>>> ULAs are also useful where the prefix changes, for stable internal 
>>> addressing
>>> as the global prefix changes?  Typically in residential networks.
>>> 
>>> p.5
>>> Section 2.1.4 is really about choices in address assignment within a 
>>> network.
>>> 
>>> p.6
>>> Some of these paras should be in a section about IPv6 network 
>>> reconnaissance,
>>> how to best mitigate against scanning, and how to inventory your own network
>>> elements.
>>> 
>>> p.6
>>> All mentions of 4941 should be replaced with 8981.
>>> 
>>> p.7
>>> Can use 7721 and 8981 together.
>>> 
>>> p.7
>>> Why are DHCP and DNS limped together?  The DNS is only about DNSSEC, so 
>>> call it
>>> that?
>>> 
>>> p.7
>>> ???Even if the use of DHCP??? - this reads badly.  Rather 8504 talks about 
>>> this in
>>> 6.5, where RFC7844 is mentioned for example.  This should be in a user 
>>> privacy
>>> section (if this document had one).  Section 8.4 is also useful advice.
>>> 
>>> p.8
>>> The first para is very muddled.
>>> 
>>> p.8
>>> In 2.1.7 this can also be useful for ACL controls, if one admin / control
>>> system sits in a prefix of its own.
>>> 
>>> p.10
>>> This is really about handling of fragmented packets (the topic) not the
>>> fragment header itself Also this is covered in 2.3.2.1 as well.
>>> 
>>> p.10
>>> In 2.2, the intro can say these issues have parallels in IPv4.
>>> 
>>> p.11
>>> First line, say the attack can typically happen from a large address scan if
>>> permitted into the network?
>>> 
>>> p.11
>>> Bullet 1 - that contradicts the comments on predictable addressing.
>>> Bullet 2 - how?  Some clues here would be useful.
>>> 
>>> p.12
>>> ???Current??? - really? All current implementations?  Delete ???current??? 
>>> or replace
>>> with ???naive??? maybe.
>>> 
>>> p.12
>>> ???Communicate directly??? - at L2?  If so, why?
>>> 
>>> p.12
>>> An example of a recommendations section here, where other sections with 
>>> advice
>>> are not titled as such. See the General comment on this.
>>> 
>>> p.13
>>> ???Trivial??? cases - aren???t these common ones, like edge switches in an 
>>> enterprise?
>>> 
>>> p.13
>>> Why ???hostile????  Delete?
>>> 
>>> p.14
>>> In 2.3.5 last para, what about mDNS, Bonjour?   Though the DNS SD work is 
>>> now
>>> on unicast discovery.
>>> 
>>> p.21
>>> Maybe add here 802.1x as an example of the value of RADIUS logs, and add in
>>> here as bullets info harvested from switches and (say) router NDP syslog
>>> (though that???s I suppose the 4th bullet).  These are mentioned in 2.6.1.7 
>>> but
>>> should be split out at the same level as the other topics here.
>>> 
>>> p.28
>>> The text is 2.6.2.2 repeats earlier text.
>>> Similarly text in 2.6.2.3 is repeated form before.
>>> 
>>> p.29
>>> In 2.6.2.4 presumably also a rapid growth in ND cache size is an indicator.
>>> 
>>> p.29
>>> In 2.7 point to RFC 4942
>>> 
>>> p.30
>>> Should RFC 6092 be mentioned here?
>>> And that the best defence against IPv6 attacks n ???IPv4 only??? networks 
>>> is to
>>> deploy and manage IPv6?
>>> 
>>> p.31
>>> First bullet on this page - but isn???t this the same as if the traffic is 
>>> not
>>> tunnelled?  Why does tunnelling add the requirement?  The same applies on 
>>> the
>>> first para on p.32
>>> 
>>> p.31
>>> Maybe say here the mitigations can also break tunnel brokers (might be 
>>> desired,
>>> but users will notice???)???. Maybe tunnels to specific brokers can be 
>>> allowed.
>>> 
>>> p.32
>>> ISATAP, in 2021?  Same with 6rd.  General advice should be deploy native, 
>>> avoid
>>> tunnels.
>>> 
>>> p.33
>>> Same for 6to4.
>>> 
>>> p.34
>>> Teredo though, is that still included in Windows and XBoX, as a MS thing?
>>> 
>>> p.36
>>> Maybe cite Geoff Huston???s blog on this - it???s very good.  Maybe 
>>> there???s a more
>>> recent update though -
>>> https://blog.apnic.net/2016/06/09/lets-talk-ipv6-dns64-dnssec/. Host CLAT is
>>> applicable here?  (Hence a site should support the 64PREF RA option?  
>>> RFC8781
>>> 
>>> p.38
>>> In 2.8, to be fair IPv4 is also hardened a lot of late due to the 
>>> prevalence of
>>> use of devices in WiFi hotspots etc.
>>> 
>>> p.37
>>> Also RFC6092 on section 3.1?
>>> 
>>> p.38
>>> ???Where RFC1918 address are often used??? - add ???often???, the text 
>>> implies all
>>> enterprises use v4 NAT.
>>> 
>>> p.41
>>> Only 2 normative references?
>>> 
>>> Nits:
>>> 
>>> p.1
>>> ???The Internet??? - you probably mean ???an ISP network???
>>> ???Describes the security??? - delete ???the???
>>> 
>>> p.4
>>> ???Which are the switch??? delete ???which are???
>>> 
>>> p.8
>>> Varying -> various
>>> 
>>> p.10
>>> ipv6 -> IPv6
>>> 
>>> p.18
>>> Router processor - add r to ???route???
>>> 
>>> ???
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OPSEC mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec
>> 
>> -- 
>> Enno Rey
>> 
>> Cell: +49 173 6745902
>> Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the
>> complexities of his own making. 
>>  -- E. W. Dijkstra
> 
> 

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