After one exchange offlist, I am sending this response to ortalk in case whoever wrote the warning comment wants an authoritative response for future reference or if someone wants to observe the truly compulsive in action.
On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 11:53:02PM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: > On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:06:40 -0400 Paul Syverson > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >I'm responding only to those who already participated in this thread > >because, as has been noted, we're way off topic. > > > >On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 05:08:47PM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:33:56 +0100 Dave Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >> >On Sun, Sep 16, 2007 at 02:11:56PM -0700, Andrew Del Vecchio wrote: > >> > > >> >> Color me an anal-retentive English language nazi, but the phrase "Tor > >> >> is not an HTTP proxy..." that appears when you try to run a web > >> >> browser or other program via HTTP should read: "Tor is not a HTTP > >> >> proxy". Correct English grammar dictates that it's the first LETTER in > >> >> a word that matters, not the first SOUND. In HTTP, the article should > >> >> thus be "a" and not "an". > >> > >> Actually, for English of the non-British variety (see below), that > >> isn't quite correct either. > >> > > >> >Colour me an anally-retentive English language Nazi of the British > >> ^ (adverb should not be hyphenated onto adjective > >> --SB:-) > >> >variety, but even if it is the first letter in a word that matters, then > >> >the correct article is still "an", in the style of "an hotel" and all > >> >other words that begin with the letter "h". > >> > > >> Yes, that seems right for British English. However, for English of > >> the non-British variety, it is indeed sound-dependent, but upon the sound > >> of the word for which the letter stands (e.g., "an hour", but "a hotel"), > >> not the sound of the name of the letter itself. Thus, for non-British > >> English, the text that reads, "Tor is not a HTTP proxy" is written > >> correctly, but incorrectly for British English, as Dave Page noted above. > >> None of this is really pertinent to tor matters, of course. :-) > >> > > > >Err, close but no cigar. You are indeed correct wrt "a hotel", but not > >wrt "a HTTP proxy". As you noted, it is the sound that matters (at > >least for American English), and (in American English) 'hotel' is > >pronounced as starting with a consonant. Since 'HTTP' is pronounced > >aitch-tee-tee-pee, rather than h-t-t-t-p (imagine a lingua-alveolar > >unvoiced fricative as the middle sound), it begins with a vowel > >sound. The correct article is thus 'an'. > > > I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you to support that claim. > Every English teacher I've asked about it in the U.S. has told me that that > is incorrect and that the way I stated it above is, in fact, the correct > method. Thus, "I have a M.S. degree in atmospheric sciences" because "Master > of Science" begins with a consonant sound, not a vowel sound. Here, in its entirety, is the first entry in _A Dictionary of Modern English Usage_ by H.W. Fowler (Second edition revised by Sir Ernest Gowers), Oxford University Press, 1965. _A_ is used before all consonants except silent h (a _history_, and _hour_); _an_ was formerly usual before an unaccented syllable beginning with h andi sis still often seen and heard (_an historian, an hotel, an hysterical scene, an hereditary title, an habitual offender_). But now that the h in such words is pronounced the distinction has become anomalous and will no doubt disappear in time. Meantime speakers who like to say _an_ should not try to have it both ways by aspiring the h. _A_ is now usual also before vowel letters that in pronunciation are preceded by a consonantal sound (_a unit, a eulogy, a one_). Before letters standing for abbreviations or symbols the choice is determenined by sound of the letter, not of the word it represents, e.g. _an R.A., an M.P.; but that is the sort of thing about which we ought to be allowed to do as we please, so long as we are consistent. This a British text, but has discussions of American and British English and pays a decent respect to both. _The Elements of Style_ had nothing on the issue. My copy of the _Harbrace College Handbook_ has an entry on a vs. an, but is annoyingly silent on what to do before letters standing for abbreviations. The same was true of the two editions of _The Chicago Manual of Style_ I consulted. If one wants a reglur 'mercun authority, however, what could beat the _United States Government Printing Office Style Manual_, 1984? On page 71 it says When a group of initials begins with _a, e, f, h, i, l, m, n, o, r, s, or x_, each having a vowel sound, the indefinite article _an_ is used. an AEC report an NSC (en) proclamation an FCC (ef) ruling an RFC (ahr) loan After consulting these physical references I signed up for a free thirty day trial of the _The Chicago Manual of Style Online_, 15th Edition, which does have an entry that specifically addresses the issue, viz, 15.9. It agrees with my original post, as well as Fowler, and the U.S. Government Printing Office. The terms of usage for my trial subscription preclude posting content outside of my organization, however; thus you will need to trust me on that one. So, no need for our two great peoples to be divided by a common language on this point. Usage evolves, and I believe the flexibility expressed in last line of the entry from Fowler to now be dated. Nonetheless, its sentiment is most important. I'm going with Fowler, Sir Ernest, _and_ the U.S. of A. aloha, Paul
