Dennis,

That's awfully kind of you - I'd love to write a book on storage and
Oracle (since I've dedicated a troubling amount of my life to those two
things), but I have the faint suspicion that the last 100 pages would be
nothing but "All Stripe and No Parity Makes Matt a Dull Boy".

The "try not to be too smart" comment (in retrospect) comes off as a
little bit snarky, but I just meant that a lot of the conventional
wisdom about configuring storage that makes perfect sense when reasoned
out can not apply because of storage/OS/driver vendor X's attempt to be
crafty.  In some ways, the growth of the monolithic storage array really
screwed things up for those of us in the trenches - as vendors scrambled
to beat each other in featureset and performance, more and more
"innovation" went into the array.  Suddenly storage arrays and other
hardware/software storage components are making some very aggressive
decisions about how they're going to manage your data (and getting more
aggressive all the time), and the complexity has gotten to a degree that
even the vast majority of vendor representatives can't in-detail
describe how the algorithms used work.

Thanks,
Matt


--
Matthew Zito
GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: 646-220-3551
Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
http://www.gridapp.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:04 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in 
> seperate datafiles
> 
> 
> Matt
>    Thanks so much for your posting. I especially appreciated 
> your comment "try not to be too smart". Would you consider 
> writing a book on the topic of "I/O Devices for the Oracle 
> DBA"? I would like to learn more, but don't know where to begin. 
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> datafiles
> 
> 
> 
> Hrrrmmmm - as a wine-drinking, vegetarian, non-weightlifting 
> new yawk city boy, this explains why I never fit in with the 
> storage crowd....
> 
> However, to address the original idea about striping across 
> lots of disks, etc., you have to be very careful about how 
> you configure your storage volumes depending on your storage 
> arrays.  The "intelligence" that is built-in to high-end 
> frames can be outsmarted (for better or
> worse) by certain storage configurations.  Case in point - 
> you have an EMC array that exposes 9 GB RAID-1 volumes that 
> you use Veritas to create stripe sets across.  You make a 
> 10-volume RAID-0 stripe and following the "match the 
> filesystem block size to the oracle block size" principle you 
> make the stripe depth 8k.  This makes a certain degree of 
> sense - linear reads and writes getting distributed among a 
> number of physical spindles, helps mitigate hotspots, etc.  
> However, on a Symmetrix, this will yield poor(er) performance 
> results.  This is because of two factors - one, regardless of 
> the I/O on the host side, the Symm will always do backend I/O 
> and cache allocation in 32k objects and two, the symmetrix 
> readahead won't kick in until it sees two or three sequential 
> tracks being requested within a certain minimum amount of 
> time.  So, the small stripe size ends up unnecessarily 
> placing objects in cache and negates the readahead that can 
> provide large performance enhancements.  There's a whole host 
> of oddities like these that are present in all of the major 
> storage vendors, so you have to be aware of what's going to happen.
> 
> The moral of the story is, of course, the more expensive your 
> storage array, the more you benefit by knowing the hows and 
> whys of what your storage array does.  Also try not to be too 
> smart about how you set up your storage unless you have a 
> very deep understanding of the intelligence behind the 
> storage - it'll help keep you from shooting yourself in the 
> foot.  I've seen too many oracle DBAs spend hours creating a 
> "highly tuned" storage configuration based on faulty or 
> lacking information on how the storage array actually works 
> and then they complain about how slow the array is....
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt
> 
> --
> Matthew Zito
> GridApp Systems
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cell: 646-220-3551
> Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
> http://www.gridapp.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Stephen Lee
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:25 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in 
> > seperate datafiles
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Steroids, weight lifting, and a flattop hair cut (orange or
> > green).  After two years of this, try talking to the storage 
> > guys while holding a beer in one hand and a Polish sausage in 
> > the other.  If you can manage a good belch during the 
> > conversation, even better.
> > 
> > (Are you a visual person?)
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > get to control how my disks are set up (part of that "now
> > now little
> > > girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the
> > disks are
> > > set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big <male>
> > data center
> > > operations people" crap I get)
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Stephen Lee
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
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> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Matthew Zito
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 

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