which noted O-O author said that about DBs? > > From: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2003/11/20 Thu PM 02:59:58 EST > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it > > Paula - It may get worse. A noted O-O author said "a database is just a > means to persist an object". I also see a lot of young developers that > haven't taken much Computer Science, so haven't been exposed to underlying > theories like relational modeling. Well, we DBAs just have to be lights > shining into the darkness. > > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:45 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Why in an IT shop - do us DBA's only seem to understand this? As I see it > most programmers don't understanding data models at all! It makes it easier > for them to ignore the DBA's as being theoretical, academic.... > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:30 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Hear, hear! > > pb > --- Michael Milligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As Date is want to say, "Theory is practical!" (Chapter One, > > Relational > > Database Writings 1991-1994). > > > > IMHO, a lack of understanding of relational database theory leads > > directly > > to database designs so flawed that they can't possibly allow their > > application to accomplish their goals. If you don't think in terms of > > functional dependencies, if you don't know the trade-offs in using > > nulls, if > > you don't why you want to put some attributes in one entity and > > others in > > others, you'll be in trouble. Some people call all of this "theory". > > I see > > it as the "fundamental principles" that you'll be dead in the water > > without. > > > > > > If you don't know what the "relational" in RDBMS means (nothing to do > > with > > foreign keys), you'll make a bunch of mistakes over and over, knowing > > something is wrong but not able to put your finger on what's wrong. > > Then > > you'll limp along with an unfixable application, held together with > > prayers, > > and not able to deliver performance or even the right data. > > > > I've been doing this for 17 years and I've seen it happen more times > > than I > > like to remember. My suggestion, my strong suggestion, is to learn > > the > > theory to such an extent that you'll know why a model is good or why > > it's > > flawed. If you don't know what a good model is, how can you possibly > > create > > one? > > > > Data modeling is hard work. There is no shortcut for it. There is > > also no > > shortcut for learning it. But you can learn from people who > > understand it > > well and can express it well, also. In my opinion, those names > > include C.J. > > Date, Hugh Darwen, Fabian Pascal, and a number of others. > > > > HTH > > > > Michael Milligan > > Oracle DBA > > Ingenix, Inc. > > 2525 Lake Park Blvd. > > Salt Lake City, Utah 84120 > > wrk 801-982-3081 > > mbl 801-628-6058 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:35 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Agreed. And I think you'll admit it's better to be familiar with and > > aware > > of the theory, even if current db products don't live up to the model > > 100%, > > so you know to bring up the kinds of issues you mention in the first > > place. > > In that sense, I think the knowledge to be gained from Date, Darwen, > > Pascal, > > etc., can be very practical. > > > > > > This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or > > proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity > > to > > which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the > > intended > > recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby > > notified that > > any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is > > prohibited. If > > you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by > > replying > > to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > -- > > Author: Michael Milligan > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Paul Baumgartel > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
