Carson, you said: "CITES has a fairly straight-forward definition of "salvage." In most cases, letters of permission from land owners, or appropriate state officials would provide the necessary supporting documents."
Sorry, but that is such a developed-world solution. It doesn't solve anything in the third world (ie most of the orchid-rich world) because the land-owner is often absent, or illiterate, or the land-ownership is unclear or disputed, or the land is collectively-owned, eg by the local villagers. Anyway, what is to stop the salvager from writing the letter himself, or dictating the words to a professional letter-writer in the nearest town ? Upshot: there is no-one to write the letter, and/or any letter you produced would probably be worthless. In most orchid-rich places I can think of, there are no "appropriate state officials" to provide the necessary supporting documents. Unless you were to provide an individual incentive, it is most unlikely that any state official would risk his job by exceeding his authority. Upshot: your desire to get the papers just increases the local corruption levels. Carson, you responded to my question "Why does salvage have to be followed by export for profit, when replanting them somewhere nearby is usually a more environmentally-sound option ?" with: "This question is irrelevent. No-one is implying that salvage has to be followed with anything." Actually Carson, you did. You started this by complaining that the Canadian CITES officials refused to let some guy export salvaged plants for his personal profit. Why don't you address my question, and explain why the option you desire(export for profit) should be permitted when replanting them somewhere nearby is usually a more environmentally-sound option ?" Thomas Hillson chipped in with the disingenuous: "Then with the proper permits people can salvage the plants and the plants be replanted into similar areas and allowed to continue to provide beauty for all, and some people with proper permits can salvage the plants and they can be taken to nurseries and grown on and the progeny put into the commercial market......This could be added to the CITES Treaty .... " Tom, in most countries in the orchid-rich world you do not need a permit to salvage plants and replant them locally, unless you were thinking of doing this in a National Park, Forest Reserve, or other gazetted locality. You do not need a permit to grow plants in nurseries. You do not even need a permit for the progeny to be put into the commercial market and exported, as long as they are in a sterile flask at the time. Everything in your paragraph (above) can already be done without a permit, so I guess you meant something else .... are you sure you didn't omit to point out that your nurseries are located in a foreign country ? That was just a little bit sneaky of you. Tom, you said "I feel that CITES is nothing more than an impediment in the way of Legal International Trade." Spot-on, boyo. That is EXACTLY what it was intended to be, and that is EXACTLY what it is.... a definition of your "Legal" and therefore a restriction on uncontrolled International Trade. You are complaining that the leopard has got spots. Finally, Tom, I'll comment on your sentence: "Most Countries would not like other Countries telling them they can not mine where they want to or they can not allow clear cutting of trees in certain areas ...... That is what needs to be added to the CITES Treaty to make it work." I don't think that will make anything work. Most countries were opposed to the invasion of Iraq, but the US went ahead and did it anyway. Your country has signed the Geneva Convention, but you've still got Guantanamo, secret prisons and torture-chambers. There is an international treaty banning the use of land-mines, but the US still plants huge numbers of them around the world each year. Since when did any country do what other countries tell it to do, if it doesn't agree ? Cheers, Peter O'Byrne _______________________________________________ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
