Just chiming in to say I'm not a moderator and not sure why my name is
associated with the Shared Weight email address. Maybe Sandy answered a
question I asked a long time ago?
Marie-Michele, Montreal, Canada


On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 10:30 AM Paul Rosenberg via Organizers <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi folks
>
> Apologies for how I am addressing the response.  Most lists default to the
> entire group, but it seems like this goes only to the individuals in the
> response field?  OK, now I see that Marie-Micele seems to be the moderator
> and generic address
>
> Just a few thoughts:
>
> COULD YOU PLEASE LIST WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND YOUR DANCE SERIES?
>
> This is an issue I notice in all of these lists, but specifically in the
> Organizers' list, knowing your location is useful, unless you want to
> remain anonymous
>
> But while I'm at it, I might as well make a couple of comments. I've
> always wondered myself (since my first dance in 1981!) about the
> contradiction of having a lesson preceding the dance, while publicity also
> indicates that no experience needed, all dances taught, dances are easy
> etc. etc.
>
> Yes, the dances are easy compared to international folk, which is mostly
> Balkan these days, and ballroom.  But I have witnessed way too many people
> struggling, especially in recent years, with the fast pace of these
> always-in-motion cardio -- and -- mental workout dances.
>
> As a caller, I got to the point that I no longer enjoyed ramping up the
> dances for the experienced dancers while leaving the less physically and
> mentally fit dancers behind. I had already been calling a lot of community
> dances and family dances and getting much more satisfaction from them. And
> people smiling a heck of a lot more!   So I stopped organizing --  as well
> as calling -- contra series.
>
> My organizing community and family dances, as fun as they were for people
> (we would get *rousing ovations* at the end of each event), our turnouts
> were still too small to have a viable event. But I was still organizing
> them until Covid.
>
>  I am lucky that we have a couple of local bands who are willing to play
> for whatever comes in the door, so we could continue and each of us get gas
> money, and sometimes enough to pay for a meal at a local cafe.
>
>  But I'm not sure what my future is going to be because of all the
> complications right now with checking vaccinations and masking, etc. etc.
>
> Another important issue is the gender neutral calling. I rarely use
> gendered terms because they're not necessary in the community and family
> dances. But larks and robins is such a weird descriptor!  Do you think that
> there could be another way of distinguishing roles? I think the best way to
> do gender-neutral calling is to use positional terminology. But I realize
> that is very challenging for us callers
>
> A colleague of mine uses "drivers and passengers" and I tried that
> recently, but wouldn't you know it? Some people from the United Kingdom
> were there and they said they got thrown off by the terminology of course!
>
>
> But some thing that a lot of the Contra world folks do not think of is
> that we are going to become quite a monoculture because many rural people
> as well as many conservative people are not only unhappy with this
> terminology, but some are actually boycotting the dances because of it. I
> do know a few people in that category.
>
> I do my best to explain to them about the pain that some members of our
> community go through at the dances with the gent/lady terms, but they have
> a couple of arguments themselves. For one thing, they say that they are
> uncomfortable with these new terms.
>
>  But there's also the argument that many of us progressives are going
> overboard to make sure that members of oppressed groups do not feel any
> pain in their lives. I realize this is a huge huge conversation, but in the
> wide world there is more and more talk about how damaging it is to insulate
> oppressed groups from feeling any pain. And I am one of those people who
> went through terrible oppression growing up and was lucky to have enough of
> a support system to allow me to get past the pain. And yes, there are
> people who do not have that support system
>
> Now I'm realizing I've gone on way too long, but I do hope we have more of
> a dialogue about this
>
>
> Paul Rosenberg
> Albany, NY
> Founder of the Flurry Festival, Saratoga Springs, NY
> www.homespun.biz
> *Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music*
> 518-482-9255
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 9:26 AM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Could you specifically address my question of how to get new dancers to
>> show up on time for the lesson?  I think it would be ok to advertise the
>> event as starting at 7:00 with lesson (or basic moves instruction) in the
>> first half hour.  I feel like when new people come at 7:00 and experienced
>> arrive at 7:30 that already sets the newbies up as "a tribe apart".  We
>> need to get as many as possible there at 7:00 to integrate and socialize.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 6:50 AM Mary Collins <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender free, we strive
>>> for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers.  I am scheduled
>>> to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this
>>> info.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mary,
>>>>
>>>> Is the Buffalo dance gender free?  The website tells callers to use
>>>> gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website
>>>> needs updating.  If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use
>>>> gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were
>>>> a new dancer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
>>>> largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
>>>>
>>>> I think you have some good ideas here.
>>>>
>>>> One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
>>>> gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
>>>> each dance being taught and "walked through".  Then we advertise "the
>>>> lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
>>>> this is a huge contradiction.
>>>>
>>>> I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
>>>> Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
>>>> taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
>>>> prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
>>>> lesson.
>>>>
>>>> I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
>>>> only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
>>>> have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
>>>> perception.
>>>>
>>>> We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with
>>>> a friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
>>>> dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
>>>>
>>>> We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
>>>>
>>>> I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Mary "from Buffalo", not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
>>>>> Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard?  Coming late
>>>>> to lesson and being lost/confused during dance?  Lack of feeling of
>>>>> mastery/learning?  Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month?  
>>>>> One
>>>>> month is a long time to wait for another lesson.  Not enough younger
>>>>> dancers like themselves?
>>>>> Ideas:
>>>>> 1. Use beginner friendly buttons
>>>>> 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances
>>>>> at least.  Board members lead by example.
>>>>> 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
>>>>> welcome/socialize with new dancers.
>>>>> 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
>>>>> at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table.  We gave
>>>>> out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
>>>>> March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
>>>>> spring break.  Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
>>>>> listeners).  Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in 
>>>>> February
>>>>> and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
>>>>> playing.
>>>>> 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30.  Should we use start time 7:00
>>>>> in advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to
>>>>> coming at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at
>>>>> 7:00 for the lesson.  New people attending and being on time for 7:00
>>>>> lesson is important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that
>>>>> way?  Want experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them
>>>>> so they can be better integrated into the community and not feel so
>>>>> awkward.  I have suggested this to our board before, but was told that
>>>>> would be manipulative toward experienced dancers who would be upset that
>>>>> they came too early and wasted their time.  That feels like a very
>>>>> unwelcoming attitude, and I would like to encourage all our dancers to
>>>>> consider that 7:00 is our start time because beginners are important and 
>>>>> we
>>>>> need to be there to greet them and socialize.
>>>>> 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
>>>>> callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance?  On
>>>>> a different day?  Through Parks and Rec this summer?
>>>>> 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers.  Need to do
>>>>> advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
>>>>> pandemic.  Contact individually by phone/email?
>>>>>
>>>>> And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but
>>>>> strongly related topic we need to address more effectively.  We are not
>>>>> getting enough young people at dances.  It appears to me that when a young
>>>>> person comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough
>>>>> people in their age group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with
>>>>> so far and add others.
>>>>> Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for
>>>>> the lesson.
>>>>> Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
>>>>> lesson?  It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
>>>>> lesson which is not good for anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>
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>>>>
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