Wow, a sensible and well considered post. Something must have gone
seriously wrong somewhere for you to think that something this pleasant
and polite would be censored.
And oh look, it made it the list! Take that you Orion folk! You can't hold
us down forever! We will rise up and post whatever we want!
Hani
On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Rafael Alvarez wrote:
> I'm posting this as a favor to Jay Amstrong
>
> Karl,
>
> Thanks for responding. This is already a long message, so I'll try to
> keep it short.
>
> I've been wrong before and, if that's the case now, then please forgive
> me. Lest anyone think I'm out to bash Orion, please refer to my vigorous
> and lengthy defense of Orion (e.g., "Subject: Re: SV: Not authorized to
> view this page" 16Feb2001).
>
> There have been several threads on orion-interest about lack of response
> from Evermind/Ironflare. Topics like "Anyone heard from evermind?" didn't
> appear without reason. Your response to that particular thread explained
> the transition from Evermind to Ironflare, which, in turn, spawned many
> concerns about the future of Orion (pricing, etc). Still, there were other
> subsequent threads about lack of response, especially regarding bug fixes.
>
> Several weeks ago, I notified you directly of an unauthorized production
> user. There was very little interest. In fact, there has been no follow
> up to let me know whether or not anyone even verified it. I assumed that
> there was so little interest in a few $1,500 production licenses because
> Ironflare was too busy trying to sign with Oracle.
>
> I also recently requested comments from you and Magnus for a live web
> presentation I am doing next week about J2EE on a budget. Again, no response.
>
> Since we don't know the details of the deal with Oracle, it's hard for me
> to comment on the value of the deal. What we do know is that other J2EE
> products (e.g., WebLogic, WebSphere, IPlanet, etc) sell for upwards of
> $10,000 per CPU.
>
> In the past, on this site, I have stated that I hope you an Magnus become
> millionaires. I'm not asking now, nor will I ever ask, how many licenses
> Ironflare has sold or the specifics of the contract with Oracle. That's
> your business. But I do know what Oracle's competitors charge, and
> Ironflare's possible revenue from this is theoretically enormous. Again,
> I'm happy for you.
>
> The reaction I've gotten on this agreement from other
> Orion users is that they're very happy about it, and
> You may wish to consider that many Orion users are trying to learn J2EE,
> have absolutely no experience with big business, etc are fearful of being
> banned from this and the Orion site.
>
> In a sense, I'm happy, too. Like many users, I am concerned about the
> future of Orion. I doubt Ironflare has an army of lawyers or a mountain of
> cash -- Oracle does. It may be increasingly difficult to allow Orion to be
> free for development, because Oracle's long-term business strategy is
> probably not to allow that. There is no getting around the fact that
> comments from users to this site have helped refine a product that is now
> directly benefitting a Fortune 50 company.
>
> I am definitely happy for you and Magnus. I've gained a lot more from
> Orion than I've given.
>
> I am somewhat encouraged by your comments, though still doubtful about the
> future. Maybe I'm just too cynical. Maybe I've dealt with too many big
> companies.
>
> Jay
>
>
