Dear John,
I find your comments as off base as the original suggestion I commented
on, and inall due respect for your imagination I respectfully dismiss it
out of hand.
Please note that the sumerian sungod was named UTU, the Sumerian word for
sun. May I suggest that you do some reading on the development of
Mesopotamian religion. Start with Jacobsen, Treasures of Darkness.
Victor
And now I will go all the way down to the bottom of this letter to let teh
trailor loose. It's a long way down!



On Mon, 6 May 2002, John Lupia wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Victor Horovitz  wrote:
> Excuse me for being blunt, but your assertion is
> ridiculous. The semitic word for sun is $VmV$. It is
> shared by all semitic languages (Heb $eme$, Akkadian
> $am$su, Ugaritic $p$, Arabic sams, etc). The Akkadian
> nominal form would be $am$u with the nominative
> ending. The form $ama$ is the absolute form used in
> personal names, so $ama$ is simply the way one
> adresses the sun (Mr. Sun). THe word for the heavenly
> luminary precedes its deification, and does not derive
> from it.  
> 
> 
> Dear Victor:
> 
> The fact that the name $ama$ could mean Mr. Sun
> presupposes that it could also have meant Lord Sun
> ranking him among the nobility, in a monarchial
> structure, where, perhaps, $ama$ was its king.  We
> cannot rule out a form of pagan idolatry where a
> deceased king is honored and considered the rising sun
> in the eternal life.  In this case then the origin of
> the name does not precludes that it was involved in
> its very origin as a religio-mythic cult of a
> primogenetor king who eternally lives and reigns and
> who can give us enlightenment.  Judaism seems to have
> broken off from this cultic sun-worship and imputed to
> the one-uncreated-God the faculties and personality of
> $ama$ and established monotheism as an outgrowth and a
> response to this.
> 
> Victor Horovitz  wrote:
> Although the sun may have been adored in Israelite
> religion, biblical or post biblical, as has been
> asserted by many scholars (see, for example Morton
> Smith's article on Helios in Palestine in the Orlinsky
> Volume of Eretz Israel, or Hadley? articles and
> books), your argument is simply wrong, backward, and
> irrelevant.
> 
> I agree that the Israeli sun worshipping would be
> irrelevant since it would have been post Sumerian
> period which first gave evidence to this phenomenon. 
> Conseuently, Judaism would have been a development as
> an outgrowth from Sumerian culture, which appears to
> have lapsed back into its former Sumerian form from
> time to time.
> 
> Victor Horovitz  wrote:
> As for adoring the rising sun, in particular, I might
> refer you to the famous Sun Disk inscription of
> Nebobaladan (King, Babylonian Boundary Stones no. 36)
> which tells that the statue of $ama$ was lost, and
> until it was "miraculously" rediscovered, it was
> substituted for by a "niphu".  Now, niphu designates a
> sundisk model, round and decorated with a four pointed
> star with wavy lines characteristic of $ama$ between
> each arm of the star. If you look at a picture of the
> tablet you will see such a niphu. What is relevant to
> your suggestion about this, is that the Akkadian verb
> napahu, from which niphu is derived, means to break
> out in flames, and also "sun rise", so if we may learn
> anything from this it may be that the accepted
> non-anthropormorphic symbol of the Babylonian Sun God
> $ama$ was a model of the rising sun.
> Victor
> 
> Yes, Victor, $ama$ would have been associated with the
> sun and time, hence he would be considered as
> "father-time" or "the eternal one", or, perhaps
> called, "Lord Sun-Rise".  It is from this origin that
> it appears that Judaism was born.  Substituting or
> replacing "Ehad" the "One" the eternal and uncreated
> God, who is the source of all creation, with $ama$,
> forms the new monotheistic religion of Judaism.  The
> first Jews had adored the sun but as the "Father" who
> could enlighten us and give revelations.  He could
> speak through prophets, kings, priests, and reveal
> himself to the human family.  The disolvement between
> monolitheistic cult worship with the sun and without
> it seems to have drifted in and out suggesting priests
> from different schools existed and that the high
> priests were selected shifting between these different
> schools from time to time.
> 
> Best regards,
> John
> 
> 
> =====
> John N. Lupia
> 501 North Avenue B-1
> Elizabeth, New Jersey 07208-1731

For private reply, e-mail to avigdor horovitz  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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