Hello Jürgen
Yes I agree with you, that a microservice architecture has become a
fashion more than a technology, in itself, and a lot of projects ended
up failing,
this is why we're tryin to find out how new microservice architecture
could be more efficient for our business need and if it will bring a
real added value to our projets.
in other hand, , we use maven-bundle-plugin (apache.Felix) to build
our osgi jars and when you deduce that we use an older vesion of osgi
because we use Blueprint, do you recommand that we replace it by DS
when we upgrade our karaf version, now we use Karaf 4.0.6
regarding BND tools, honestly I don't see the added value that can
bring in OSGI project (except testing).
Regards,
Mohamed
Le ven. 3 mai 2019 à 13:25, <osgi-dev-requ...@mail.osgi.org
<mailto:osgi-dev-requ...@mail.osgi.org>> a écrit :
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Migrating from OSGI to Microservices (Scott Lewis)
2. Re: Migrating from OSGI to Microservices (Mohamed AFIF)
3. Re: Migrating from OSGI to Microservices (J?rgen Albert)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 09:55:20 -0700
From: Scott Lewis <sle...@composent.com <mailto:sle...@composent.com>>
To: osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] Migrating from OSGI to Microservices
Message-ID: <5e8a5823-f3d1-3a0e-543b-ee4389c0f...@composent.com
<mailto:5e8a5823-f3d1-3a0e-543b-ee4389c0f...@composent.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Another option is to use OSGi Remote Services [A].
Some implementations allow use of both Jaxrs or non-Jaxrs (e.g.
legacy)
REST providers [B].
Scott
[A]
https://osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/7.0.0/service.remoteservices.html
[B] https://wiki.eclipse.org/Distribution_Providers
On 5/2/2019 7:51 AM, BJ Hargrave via osgi-dev wrote:
> With OSGi's JAX-RS support [1], you can easily publish and consume
> RESTy endpoints in your OSGi application.
> So there is no need to "leave" OSGi to participate in a
microservice
> environment.
> [1]:
>
https://osgi.org/specification/osgi.enterprise/7.0.0/service.jaxrs.html
> --
>
> BJ Hargrave
> Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781
> OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788
> hargr...@us.ibm.com <mailto:hargr...@us.ibm.com>
>
> ----- Original message -----
> From: Neil Bartlett via osgi-dev <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>
> Sent by: osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org
<mailto:osgi-dev-boun...@mail.osgi.org>
> To: Mohamed AFIF <afif.moha...@gmail.com
<mailto:afif.moha...@gmail.com>>, OSGi Developer Mail
> List <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] Migrating from OSGI to Microservices
> Date: Thu, May 2, 2019 6:37 AM
> Well the good news is that OSGi is already a microservice
> architecture, so you have already finished. Congratulations!
> If that answer doesn't quite satisfy you, maybe you'd like to
> describe in more detail what you are attempting to achieve
and why?
> Regards,
> Neil
> On Thu, 2 May 2019 at 11:06, Mohamed AFIF via osgi-dev
> <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>>
wrote:
>
> Hello everybody,
> We 're starting to study the possibility to transform our
> architcteure in order to migrate from OSGI to microservice
> architecture, and I would like to know if there is
alreay some
> people who had thought about this subject or already start
> this migration.
> Because at first sight it would not be an easy task, many
> problems/issues we will be facing to them (blueprint
> injections, managing ditrubued caches instead of one
cache in
> one JVM...)
> Many thanks
> --
> Cdt
> Mohamed AFIF
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 10:57:29 +0200
From: Mohamed AFIF <afif.moha...@gmail.com
<mailto:afif.moha...@gmail.com>>
To: Andrei Dulvac <dul...@apache.org <mailto:dul...@apache.org>>
Cc: OSGi Developer Mail List <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>
Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] Migrating from OSGI to Microservices
Message-ID:
<ca+h-v5ouzzmdgno9mrpw0bfnmb+psqw93uhnqzba-35esys...@mail.gmail.com
<mailto:ca%2bh-v5ouzzmdgno9mrpw0bfnmb%2bpsqw93uhnqzba-35esys...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Andrei,
My question had as aim to collect some experiences of suchs
migrations if
this exist, we're in brainstorming phase and I'm not making any
judgement
value about OSGI or microservices architecture, but what we push to
believe that we should probely move toward another technology,
is: the
business requirement, indeed we want to expose our service to
clients as
API, and the several technical complications we 've ve been faced to
everytime we want to implement a feature easily provided and could be
implemented by other open framework in the market, there is also
the Human
ressource question is involved beacause it's not easy find/keep OSGI
developers.
personaly I think that OSGI is a perfect tehcnology for servers or
embedded system, but I've some doubt when it's regarding
applications with
open architectures, it's my own view and I could be wrong
Regards
Mohamed.
@Neil
Obviously a simple
Le jeu. 2 mai 2019 ? 16:52, Andrei Dulvac <dul...@apache.org
<mailto:dul...@apache.org>> a ?crit :
> Hi Mohamed, Neil.
>
> Neil, while I agree with you, I think Mohamed means it in the more
> "modern", widely-accepted sense:
> https://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html
>
> """
> In short, the microservice architectural style [1]
>
<https://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html#footnote-etymology>
> is an approach to developing a single application as a suite of
small
> services, each running in its own process and communicating with
> lightweight mechanisms, often an HTTP resource API.
> """
>
> Mohamed, I'm curious what you end up with. Without getting too
much into
> it, I dismissed the idea as something "not worth it".
>
> - Andrei
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 12:37 PM Neil Bartlett via osgi-dev <
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>> wrote:
>
>> Well the good news is that OSGi is already a microservice
architecture,
>> so you have already finished. Congratulations!
>>
>> If that answer doesn't quite satisfy you, maybe you'd like to
describe in
>> more detail what you are attempting to achieve and why?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Neil
>>
>> On Thu, 2 May 2019 at 11:06, Mohamed AFIF via osgi-dev <
>> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everybody,
>>>
>>> We 're starting to study the possibility to transform our
architcteure
>>> in order to migrate from OSGI to microservice architecture,
and I would
>>> like to know if there is alreay some people who had thought
about this
>>> subject or already start this migration.
>>> Because at first sight it would not be an easy task, many
>>> problems/issues we will be facing to them (blueprint
injections, managing
>>> ditrubued caches instead of one cache in one JVM...)
>>>
>>> Many thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Cdt
>>> Mohamed AFIF
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSGi Developer Mail List
>>> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
>>> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSGi Developer Mail List
>> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
>> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
>
>
--
Cdt
Mohamed AFIF
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 13:25:31 +0200
From: J?rgen Albert <j.alb...@data-in-motion.biz
<mailto:j.alb...@data-in-motion.biz>>
To: osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
Subject: Re: [osgi-dev] Migrating from OSGI to Microservices
Message-ID:
<e3336ebd-37c3-8c90-9981-dc70082d0...@data-in-motion.biz
<mailto:e3336ebd-37c3-8c90-9981-dc70082d0...@data-in-motion.biz>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Hi Mohamed,
I had the fortune and in parts misfortune of being part of a few such
migration projects. Besides our own internal one, everyone decided
against OSGi. The descension was always because of personal
resentment
and/or because everybody had his personal favourite toy they
wanted to
play with. The reasons ranged from " We don't want to use Eclipse"
(enroute with maven? wasn't available at the time) over "We want
spring
because we don't understand OSGi and it seems to complicated" to "
Java
is outdated, we want to build it with NodeJS". They all jumped on the
Martin Fowler approach without really considering what it means in
the
end. Each ended in disaster or went through a hard phase of near
disaster with jobs and reputations on the line. Most ended up with
something OSGiish with a lot of the pain going along with
modularity but
missing most of its benefits.
The issue is complex but we Identified one main reason:
Modularity is an abstract concept for many developers. Spring for
example does not really teach and force a developer to think in a
modular fashion. All I saw was a bunch of smaller Monoliths packed in
Docker containers. The dynamic nature of a Microservice
environment OSGi
addresses with its Bundle and Service life cycle , was pushed in the
realm of Kubernetes. But Kubernetes (or comparable Systems) is
made for
managing your Containers and not for any application and service life
cycle. Thus one needs at least a few Developers/Architects that have
modularity internalised and address issues early on.
Another issue with the Martin Fowler approach you have already
addressed. A fully distributed system comes with a lot of different
problems (e.g. caches). Also the point of network latency and the
time
serialization and deserialization is an underestimated issue.
Like Neil stated: If you are already have an OSGi application you
already have a microservice architecture, but maybe no distributed
one.
The way to go is build a good microservice monolith (or modulith,
like
it is called nowadays) and then move only the services to there own
containers, that really need scaling. Graham Charters talk from
the 2016
EclipseCon Europe addresses this quite nicely:
https://de.slideshare.net/mfrancis/microservices-osgi-better-together-graham-charters
By your mention of blueprint, I deduct that you might use an older
version of OSGi. Our internal project was somewhat similar and we
managed to go distributed without major problems. We migrated to the
latest OSGi Version and used bnd instead of PDE. Later we moved some
service to there own container. It worked like charm. We could
even show
the process to a customer, with zero downtime, by pulling up the new
containers and removing bundles with the local service
implementations
while the system was running.
Regarding your point of finding/keep OSGi developers: This is
something
we are confronted with rather often. The best way get developers
sold on
OSGi is using the latest version of it together with bnd (pure or
with
the maven integration). The development speed you can reach and
maintain
even in complex applications makes most other Java developers jealous
and interested to learn more.
Regards,
J?rgen.
Am 03/05/2019 um 10:57 schrieb Mohamed AFIF via osgi-dev:
> Hi? Andrei,
> My question had as aim to collect some experiences of suchs
migrations
> if this exist, we're in brainstorming phase and I'm not making any
> judgement value about OSGI or microservices architecture,? but
what we
> push to believe that we should probely move toward another
technology,
> is: ?the business requirement, indeed we want to expose our
service to
> clients as API, and the several technical complications we 've
ve been
> faced to everytime we want to implement a feature easily
provided and
> could be implemented by other open framework in the market,
there is
> also the Human ressource question is involved beacause it's not
easy
> find/keep OSGI developers.
> personaly? I think that OSGI is a perfect tehcnology for servers or
> embedded system, but I've some doubt when it's regarding
applications
> with open architectures, it's my own view and I could be wrong
>
> Regards
>
> Mohamed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> @Neil
> Obviously a simple
>
>
>
> Le?jeu. 2 mai 2019 ??16:52, Andrei Dulvac <dul...@apache.org
<mailto:dul...@apache.org>
> <mailto:dul...@apache.org <mailto:dul...@apache.org>>> a ?crit?:
>
> Hi Mohamed, Neil.
>
> Neil, while I agree with you, I think Mohamed means it in
the more
> "modern", widely-accepted sense:
> https://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html
>
> """
> In short, the microservice architectural style [1]
>
<https://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html#footnote-etymology>
> is an approach to developing a single application as a suite of
> small services, each running in its own process and
communicating
> with lightweight mechanisms, often an HTTP resource API.
> """
>
> Mohamed, I'm curious what you end up with. Without getting too
> much into it, I dismissed the idea as something "not worth it".
>
> - Andrei
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 12:37 PM Neil Bartlett via osgi-dev
> <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>>
wrote:
>
> Well the good news is that OSGi is already a microservice
> architecture, so you have already finished. Congratulations!
>
> If that answer doesn't quite satisfy you, maybe you'd
like to
> describe in more detail what you are attempting to
achieve and
> why?
>
> Regards,
> Neil
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2019 at 11:06, Mohamed AFIF via osgi-dev
> <osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>>
wrote:
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> We 're starting to study the possibility to
transform our
> architcteure in order to migrate from OSGI to
microservice
> architecture, and I would like to know if there is
alreay
> some people who had thought about this subject or
already
> start this migration.
> Because at first sight it would not be an easy task,
many
> problems/issues we will be facing to them (blueprint
> injections, managing ditrubued caches instead of one
cache
> in one JVM...)
>
> Many thanks
>
>
>
> --
> Cdt
> Mohamed AFIF
> _______________________________________________
> OSGi Developer Mail List
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>
> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSGi Developer Mail List
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
<mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>>
> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
>
>
>
> --
> Cdt
> Mohamed AFIF
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSGi Developer Mail List
> osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org <mailto:osgi-dev@mail.osgi.org>
> https://mail.osgi.org/mailman/listinfo/osgi-dev
--
J?rgen Albert
Gesch?ftsf?hrer
Data In Motion Consulting GmbH
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****************************************
--
Cdt
Mohamed AFIF
