DER SPIEGEL 26/2005 - June 27, 2005 URL: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,362617,00.html
Spiegel Interview with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani "I'm in Favor of Reducing the Number of American Troops" Iraqi President Jalal Talabani discusses the case against Saddam Hussein, the progress that has been made in reconstructing the country and the perils of "barbaric" and "gruesome" terrorist who threaten to destabilize the country. The Iraqi government, he believes, could bring the horror under control within a year. Jalal Talabani, 71, the founder of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, is considered one of the most influential Kurdish leaders in northern Iraq. He earned the respect of his fellow Iraqis as commander of a unit of "Peshmerga" guerilla fighters. After Iraq's first free elections, the Iraqi parliament in Baghdad named Talabani, a lawyer by profession, president of Iraq on April 6 of this year. SPIEGEL: Mr. President, Saddam Hussein's guards say that he still believes he is the rightful ruler of Iraq and that he is considering making peace with United States President George W. Bush. As his successor, what do you think? Talabani: Those are the delusions of a man who has suffered total defeat and no longer has any idea of how isolated he is. Even sheikhs from his own clan have disassociated themselves from him. It's the classic fate of a dictator who is out of touch with his people and reality. SPIEGEL: The government wants to put Saddam on trial later this summer, but the Americans are slowing things down. When will the dictator stand before his earthly judge? Talabani: Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari can speed up this case if he wants to, but the decision ultimately lies with the Iraqi judiciary. We have no quarrel with the Americans in this regard. SPIEGEL: Will he receive the death penalty? Talabani: I'm a lawyer, but even if I were his judge, I would have to wait until the trial is over before I would pronounce a judgment. Of course, if you ask the people, the majority will be in favor of executing him. SPIEGEL: But many Iraqis say that while Saddam was a gruesome dictator, the air-conditioning worked from morning to night during his dictatorship, and they were able to send their children to school without having to fear for their lives. Talabani: You paint a misleading picture. By the time we lost the Kuwait war, there was no power in many parts of the country, and Baghdad's untreated sewage was flowing directly into the Tigris. Living conditions were catastrophic. A doctor earned $15 a month; today he makes several hundred. Police officers' salaries have also increased by more than tenfold. Iraq doesn't just consist of Ramadi and Fallujah. We have many successes to show for ourselves. SPIEGEL: But not when it comes to security. There are about 70 attacks a day now. 900 people were killed in May alone. The situation is become more and more menacing. Talabani: But that doesn't prove that the terrorists are successful. It's just evidence of their barbaric gruesomeness. We do in fact have a big problem with car bombs, but it's not a phenomenon that comes from Iraq. Last Wednesday, the terrorists were bragging that they had put together the first purely Iraqi unit of suicide bombers. This proves that this form of terrorism is being forced upon us. SPIEGEL: Do you have any more specific information about where the foreign mujahedeen are coming from? Talabani: It's difficult to give you numbers, but we have arrested people from various countries, including Pakistan and Egypt, Palestine and Algeria. Many come from Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia's extreme Wahhabism is a major source of terrorism. SPIEGEL: The United States is also accusing Iran of sending terrorists into Iraq. Talabani: I don't believe that's true. Iranians are not coming. Why should they do that now that their Shiite brothers are ruling the country? SPIEGEL: Who do you think pose a greater danger in Iraq -- the foreign jihad fighters or the Baath party loyalists? Talabani: Saddam's supporters are only active in limited areas, like the Sunni triangle, where they were also based in the past. They're not the greatest danger. Our main problem is al-Qaeda and all its Islamist offshoots. But we've also been very successful against these groups. Just one year ago, they still controlled entire cities -- including Mosul, Fallujah, Samara. That's no longer the case today. We've arrested hundreds of these people, including many terrorist leaders. SPIEGEL: Unfortunately, it hasn't really been felt yet. You've suggested that the new government approach the frustrated supporters of the former state party. Talabani: We must make distinctions when it comes to this group. There were Baathists who were dedicated to the old ideals and who fought with us Kurds in the resistance movement, even suffering serious casualties. Even among Saddam's supporters there were thousands of decent nationalists who were dissatisfied but unable to do anything about it. The fact that many of them are armed today doesn't mean that they're terrorists -- they just want to protect their property. We can find common ground with these people. SPIEGEL: An international conference on Iraq is currently underway in Brussels. Aren't such events nothing but symbolism, as long as the security situation prevents people, even Iraqi businesspeople, from investing in your country? Talabani: That only affects businessmen who are part of Saddam's old clique. Go to Kurdistan or other parts of the country and you'll see a booming economy. Go to the markets there and you'll find things that never existed under Saddam. A friend of mine is an electronics wholesaler. During the dictatorship, his weekly sales were about $100,000. Today he sells $2 million in the same amount of time. In Kurdistan, even foreigners are investing. SPIEGEL: Meanwhile thousands of Iraqis -- doctors, scientists, businesspeople -- are leaving the country. What are you doing to stop this exodus? Talabani: The numbers are exaggerated. Ten times as many people left Iraq under Saddam. I say that if we were to bring back every Iraqi doctor from Great Britain, the British healthcare system would fall apart. SPIEGEL: The government and parliament have a huge agenda this year. The constitution is supposed to be finished by mid-August, a referendum is scheduled for October, and the first election in December. Is this a realistic timetable? Talabani: The talks on the constitution have been somewhat delayed because we want to include more Sunnis in this process. Incidentally, the United Nations Security Council set this timetable. We are doing our best to stick to it. SPIEGEL: There's also been a great deal of debate over how much longer US troops should remain in the country. General John Vines has said that 20,000 soldiers could be withdrawn after the election, while some politicians in Washington favor increasing troop strength. Talabani: I'm in favor of reducing the number of American troops. In return, we should build up the Iraqi army. If the Americans want to stay longer, they could withdraw to individual bases -- the way it is in Germany. Security in the country is the Iraqis' business. SPIEGEL: Hairdressers, artists and musicians are being killed in Baghdad these days -- just because Islamists see their work as frivolous. Do you understand the concerns of many of your fellow Iraqis that a religious government could establish Islamic law, or Sharia? Talabani: Iraq will never be an Islamist state. Far from all Iraqi women wear headscarves, and alcohol is served in Baghdad's bars and cafés. On the other hand, we will not have a secular state, because that would mean a strict separation of state and religion. We recognize Islam as our state religion and see Sharia as a source of our jurisprudence. SPIEGEL: Your rival of many years, Massud Barzani, is demanding a greater role for the Kurds, and he wants to bar the Iraqi army from entering Kurdistan. Talabani: The Kurds have a lot of influence. I'm president, Barzani is president of the Kurdistan region, and Iraq's foreign minister is also a Kurd. As far as the army is concerned, there is no convincing reason to transfer troops to the north. SPIEGEL: Do you dream of an independent Kurdistan? Talabani: No. I dream of a prosperous, progressive, cultivated Kurdistan. Poets can dream that other dream, but as politicians we must be realistic. Imagine we Kurds were to declare our independence, and Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria would impose a blockade on us. How would be able to enter or leave this country? SPIEGEL: The Kurds, and you personally, are considered America's most reliable partners in Iraq. But haven't your allies made a series of mistakes? Talabani: America liberated us from dictatorship, and now we have friends we can trust. But of course America made mistakes, especially here in central Iraq, among the sheikhs and tribal leaders. Think of the arrest of Mohsen Abdul-Hamid, the head of the Islamic Party, who is a good man and whom I support. SPIEGEL: Even US officials are now complaining that Washington never had a comprehensive plan for the time after Saddam. Talabani: Yes, but we shouldn't be unfair. We Iraqis have also made mistakes. Immediately after the war, General Jay Garner said to us: Put together a government and we'll recognize it tomorrow. But we were unable to come to terms with one another. Or look at the Sunnis, who ruled this country for centuries: They boycotted the elections. SPIEGEL: You were long considered a friend of Syria, but your relationship with Damascus has cooled considerably in recent weeks. What are your charges against Syria? Talabani: I am still a friend of Syria. President Bashar Assad has just invited me to Damascus, and I will take him up on his invitation. But we have a problem with the Syrian press, which disparages our government as a "toy of the Americans" and downplays terrorism in our country. SPIEGEL: What has to happen to end this terrorism? Talabani: If the current government makes the right decisions, the horror could be over this year. But there is also another condition: our neighboring countries must refrain from anything that could benefit the terrorists. Iraq has become an international center. Until now, up 70 of them have been coming into the country every day. We must finally put an end to this influx. INTERVIEW: VOLKHARD WINDFUHR, BERNHARD ZAND Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan © DER SPIEGEL 26/2005 All Rights Reserved Reproduction only allowed with the permission of SPIEGELnet GmbH -------------------------- Want to discuss this topic? Head on over to our discussion list, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -------------------------- Brooks Isoldi, editor [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.intellnet.org Post message: osint@yahoogroups.com Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** FAIR USE NOTICE. This message contains copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. 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