Talk about an oxymoronic description of a moron: "Marxist intellectual"????
Combined with terrorists such as Che, Leila Khalid and the ZANU-PF of
Zimbabwe!  This is exactly the threat from within that the UK government has
ignored for the past 10 years. 

Bruce



Che-Leila member Takawira interviews 

Ethiopian Marxist intellectual Mohamed Hassan. 

 

This is the first part of a series of interviews conducted with Comrade
Hassan. The second part will deal with developments in Afghanistan, Pakistan
and Iraq.

 

We hope that these interviews broaden and deepen the debate and study into
the political developments in the Islamic and Arab world as a result of
imperialist oppression and aggression against it. 

 

The movement of Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zwahiri, the two leaders of the
movement which is commonly known as 'al-Qaeda', are a product of imperialist
oppression and terror against the Arab nation and in many countries which
have a majority Muslim population. 

 

Furthermore, and importantly for revolutionaries in the 'West', this
conflict is creating greater civil crisis within the imperialist countries.
These times are demanding that anti-imperialists everywhere study these
developments in order to struggle so to put an end to imperialist oppression
and in order to create peace and friendship between the peoples in the West
and in the neo-colonies.

 

This interview is rather unique in the English language in that it is one of
the few articles, from a Marxist and anti-imperialist perspective, that
addresses these issues in some detail.

 

Cde Hassan asked that two articles by Karl Marx and Frederich Engels be
mentioned in this introduction, on the Chinese revolt in 1857, and the First
Indian War of Independence in 1857 which can be found at the following
links:

 

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/09/16.htm

 

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/06/05.htm

 

These articles show how the founders of modern socialism dealt with the
early stages of the anti-colonial movements of their time. Despite the fact
that the colonial peoples in these rebellions committed atrocities which
revolutionaries would not advocate, Marx and Engels nevertheless recognised
that these uprisings on the whole raised the anti-colonial struggle to a
whole new advanced stage of struggle and should be supported.

 

Cde Hassan welcomes replies, comments, questions and criticisms arising from
this interview to his email:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

There will be another interview conducted with Cde Hassan arising from the
reactions and comments to this interview and the subjects contained within
it.

 

Takawira

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

 

Takawira : Comrade Hassan, would you like to make a general comment on the
attacks in London last week?

 

MH: I think that one has to go back to two years ago to the statement of the
Anglican and Catholic Church in Great Britain on the eve of the Iraqi
invasion when they sent a letter to British Prime Minister Tony Blair
telling him very clearly that; 

 

1, there is no justice in this war, 

 

2, this war has no moral of ethical value, 

 

3,  it is not a war for defence where you have been attacked from outside,
it is a war of aggression. 

 

It even mentioned in the same letter that this war will create a very big
wall of division among the British population and it that this war against
Iraq may bring a civil war in Britain. It is a far-sighted analysis. I think
what happened in London is what they predicted over two years ago. 

 

Knowing that British society has a very big Muslim population and other
people from Third World origins who have been feeling attacked and identify
themselves with the Iraqi population, it is normal that such kind of things
will happen in England. It didn't surprise me. What surprised me is that it
didn't happen immediately following the invasion. 

 

It is an attack that has killed innocent people. For those who have lost
their families and loved ones, I give my condolences. 

 

I convey my same condolences for more than one hundred thousand who have
died in Iraq. They are also innocent civilians, their whole country is being
destroyed the whole infrastructure is destroyed. Five million people have
been put into a very severe condition. There is even now the export of human
organs from Iraq. Many Iraqis are now living by selling their blood to blood
banks in order to survive. Around one hundred thousand Iraqis are in prison.
The whole Iraqi nation has become a concentration camp. I can imagine that
some young people can react and they are desperate to do something about it.
I think in this regard the declaration of the Church was very clear.

 

Taka: Have you heard of any reactions from the liberation movements in
Afghanistan or Iraq on these attacks in London?

 

MH: I have not heard anything. But it could very well be that this is a
British phenomenon. Britain is an aggressor in Iraq. The ruling class in
Britain have decided on an aggressive and unjust war by invading a sovereign
country which is a member of the United Nations, without any mandate. All
the arguments of the British state in waging war has been proved to be false
and lies, so probably they have ignited a civil war in their own society. It
could be a pure British reaction. 

 

Taka: In the current crisis of imperialism, particularly that of the US and
the British Imperialists, imperialism is continuing to pursue a strategy of
terror and aggression for world domination. In this context it may well be
that these manifestations of civil strife in the Western countries will
grow. If so, what are the ramifications for the societies such as Belgium,
Holland, but particularly Britain and the USA?

 

MH: Well, one has to put this in the general developments in the world since
the last seventy or eighty years. The conditions of the world have changed
after the Bolshevik Revolution, particularly later on after the defeat of
Nazism and when Eastern European socialism was established. A lot of
anti-colonial and anti-imperialist struggles have been maintained in the
Third World, most of the countries became independent and sovereign. On the
basis of that in most of the countries as far as education is concerned
their consciousness, knowing their rights, knowing the world situation,
knowing their place in the world has also increased. 

 

Despite the collapse of the USSR and East European socialism resulting in a
change of the balance of power in the world, the aggressiveness of US
Imperialism to dominate the world has increased. But US Imperialism has been
proved to be a paper tiger in Iraq. Even Rumsfeld and his group are saying
that the US cannot wage two wars simultaneously because of the situation
they find themselves in Iraq due to the resistance of the Iraqi people. 

 

The Iraqi resistance has proved that it is impossible for US Imperialism to
wage and maintain war while they are facing serious problems in Iraq and
maintaining war in Afghanistan as well as maintaining war in other places.
This has exposed the weakness of US Imperialism on the ground. British
Imperialism is connected particularly to the Middle East because of its oil
interests and their defence of certain Arab regimes, feudal Arab regimes
which are subsidising the British economy. 

 

Britain has since the first Gulf War [1991] continued with the US to
illegally bomb Iraq without any mandate, imposing an inhuman embargo, trying
to overthrow the previous regime internally by financing vigilante groups,
terrorists and so on and so forth. 

 

As far as terrorism is concerned, the 'war against terror' and the
'anti-terror' laws is itself terror. To give you an example, the killing of
the Nigerian judge by US vigilante in Nigeria, the elimination of certain
figures and politicians in Lebanon - what's happening now. The anti-terror
laws which gave been applied in the US combines a lot of things, but it
includes eliminating public figures in any country in the world. 

 

The US has started the terror. Their terror is limitless and it is global.
Of course their propaganda machine is very big. They try to fool the US and
British white working class and dividing them from the rest of the working
class by stating that there is terrorism against them from outside. 

 

You see, in the Arab world before 11th September most well to do Arab middle
class families used to send their children to England and the US. Now of
course, after 11th September and the vigilante action and terror within the
US has frightened the Muslims, and non Muslims for that matter from the
Third World, from going to the US because of the repercussions of terror
which is applied in the US against Muslims and Arabs specifically. 

 

Taka: We have seen certain state oppression and civil clashes manifesting
themselves in different forms developing in recent years in Belgium,
Holland, Spain, France and in Britain and the US. One could argue that this
is going to increase, and is going to polarise the working class along
religious and national lines. How do you think that progressives, the
anti-war movement and people in general should react to this?

 

MH: First of all one has to analyse Political Islam from a historical
perspective. Political Islam is a political movement which has an ideology
of its own. It is basically led by the petit bourgeoisie, sometimes even by
the national bourgeoisie. Political Islam in the beginning had difficulties
in their own countries with nationalists and anti-imperialist forces. They
came into collision with Nasserism in Egypt, also with the Baathists in Iraq
and particularly Syria. Because of these contradictions, on the one side the
Zionists and the other side the feudal rulers like Saudi Arabia utilised the
Muslim Brotherhood and other forces that are based on Political Islam
against Arab Nationalist movements and against communists and left
anti-imperialist movements. 

 

But in the process the movement made a evolution. Once they were imprisoned
in Egypt if you take Egyptian Islamic Jihad, they split inside the prison.
The jihadist concept developed in prison with Qutb and Zwahiri who believed
that they must continue with armed struggle to overthrow the regime. Of
course the Egyptian jihadists have tried armed struggle inside Egypt but
they later realised that the Egyptian conditions were not suitable. There
are no jungles or forests, no mountainous areas in Egypt. The Egyptian army
and intelligence services and their supporters were too strong for them. So
they designed another strategy and tactics when they travelled to
Afghanistan. There they are allies against the Soviets, but at the same time
they are regrouping and organising their own cells and movements. 

 

Once the Soviet Union collapsed, gradually US Imperialist arrogance was
proved under Clinton when he bombarded Baghdad after the first Gulf War.
They figured that they have overthrown one enemy, now the bigger Satan is
the US, the enemy is US Imperialism and they decided that they must fight
it. One of the principle demands of their struggle is that the US must leave
Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a royal family, it is a family business where
there is no constitution, there is no central bank, while they are
controlling 25% of the world's oil, they are subsidising the US economy, and
so on. They say that they must overthrow these people, there must be a
change. 

 

The whole Saudi community, all the forces except the most background and
reactionary elements, today they see Osama bin Laden as their hero in Saudi
Arabia. He maybe seen by the West as a horrible man but in Saudi Arabia for
the Saudis they see him as a national hero. All forces are organising under
the image of him, whether they are secular, left, Baathist, nationalist.
They are under the umbrella of this image, who want to overthrow and create
a democratic country with a constitution, with accountability. Apart from
that they also say that the oil wells are Arab wells and they have to be
distributed to the poorer Arab countries. Not only for the Arab countries
but also to poor Muslim countries because they have the right to share the
wealth from the wells of Saudi Arabia and the wells of other feudal states
in the Gulf. 

 

In Saudi Arabia now there is a very big movement, military and non-military.
There is a civil movement which was hidden and organised secretly, and there
is also military combat. The day before yesterday they have discovered
according to Saudi reports, a lot of weapons captured at the border with
Yemen. This shows that a big part of the Saudi armed forces are connected to
and supporting the movement. The al-Qaeda branch in Saudi Arabia is a
nationalist movement. They want to overthrow the regime and establish
democratic country, democratic within their own culture and values, and also
to control their own national resources which are totally controlled by US
Imperialism. If they succeed in Saudi Arabia the result will be that the
other small feudal states will collapse. US Imperialism of course will be
weakened if these people succeed in Saudi Arabia.

 

Taka: Do you think that this analysis has to be popularised in the West?

 

MH: It has to be popularised.

 

Taka: To make sense of what's going on?

 

MH: To make sense of what's going on. First of all there is very little to
no reports in the Western media. In the whole Gulf States there are seven
million workers. Sixty percent of them are from the Third World. The
remaining forty percent are from imperialist countries who earn on average
seventy times what they were earning in their own country. They are living
in ghettoes. These ghettoes are the opposite of the ghettoes in the
imperialist countries where there is poverty, but the ghettoes of these
white so-called expatriates working in these countries are the most
luxurious ghettoes with swimming pools, everything is inside and they are
walled in. The excuse for this is that these countries are Islamic. Inside
these ghettoes there is no Islamic law, women are walking around like any
beaches in Greece or Spain, whiskey is sold openly there and they are living
exactly, in fact they are living in better conditions than there own
countries. 

 

500,000 Saudis have studied in the best universities of the West and have
returned home, and none of them have any function in the running of their
country! They are forced to do other types of businesses. They cannot get
employment in the government, they cannot reform their own country, and they
cannot demand accountability. There is not even a minister for finance who
does book-keeping for the economy for what is coming in and out of the
country! All these people are demanding reform. This has forced the Saudi
regime to establish what they call 'Shura', which means a sort out
parliament. Saudi women who cannot vote are also demanding their rights.
People talk about the Taliban who are very brutal and anti-women, but they
never speak about the condition of women in Saudi Arabia, they never speak
about the condition of women in Kuwait, in Bahrain and so on.

 

Taka: More than that, not only do they not speak about this reform movement,
they depict it as a movement that does not want to give women rights, that
it is a movement in which women play no role. It is presented often as a
militant Wahabbi movement. That's often as sophisticated as it gets in the
newspapers. Would you agree that this is a big problem that there is a lack
of analysis, let alone profound analysis to what's going on there?

 

MH: The jihadist movement in Saudi or in Egypt, despite the fact that they
are taking their inspiration and ideology from Islamic thinking; it is
basically a nationalist movement, a nationalist movement with an Islamic
colour. Wahabbism is in fact a creation of British Imperialism itself;
secondly the Wahabbis are in power. Wahabbism is the ideological wing of the
regime in Saudi Arabia. They are exporting Wahabbism to destabilise
progressive governments and movements in the Muslim countries. Wahabbism is
the perfect ideological weapon against progressive, democratic and
revolutionary movements. The nationalist movements in the Gulf States have
nothing to do with Wahabbism, no; it is rather a democratic revolutionary
movement, a nationalist movement which has a religious cover due to the
situation in their countries. Of course Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country
where Wahabbism has ruled for a very long time. Saudi is the place where the
holiest shrine of Islam is, it is the most  important place for the Islamic
world. So their movement's mobilisation uses religion and nationalism
combined to fight against imperialism and neo-colonialism. 

 

It is a nationalist movement and you can see that they are attacking Western
interests. When they attack expatriates they want them to leave, to make
them panic and frighten them and away and to disturb the economy of the
regime in so doing. They are not attacking them because they are whites or
non-Muslims. Most of the expatriates are military people who train the Saudi
state, armed forces and security companies. So the targets are military
targets despite the fact that they are wearing civilian clothes, but they
are military people who train the Saudi regime to maintain itself. It has
nothing to do with Christianity, no, it's a nationalist movement.

 

Taka: Recently al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper ran a seven part interview with
one of Osama bin Laden's bodyguards called 'Abu Jandal'. Maybe I
misunderstood it, but I think Abu Jandal found it difficult to accept that
post-1996 Osama bin Laden suggested that he make a critique of Wahabbism.
Abu Jandal was formerly a pro-Saudi regime jihadist in Afghanistan; he found
it difficult to accept that bin Laden said that you must re-study the role
of Wahabbism in Saudi Arabia. What is your view on this?

 

MH: Wahabbism is the ideological wing of the Saudi regime. Wahabbism is the
most reactionary and backward Islamic sect. It started in the 18th century
of a person called Abdul ibn Wahab. He himself was killed by Mohammed Ali,
he was hanged in Istanbul. Mohammed Ali at that time was the one who was
ruling Egypt. Wahabbism is also an ideology which wants to split the Islamic
community deeper and deeper. So the British and later the USA supported the
rise of Wahabbism, and then vast amounts of oil were discovered there. Then
Wahabbism became in the Cold War the best means to fight nationalist
movements. For example, the Republican movement of Yemen which overthrew the
feudal regime of Imam Yahyah in northern Yemen. Nasser was supporting this
movement by sending military officers to help the new republic. The Wahabbis
in Saudi Arabia with the means of the large amounts of money they have, used
propaganda and sabotage in Yemen utilising the backwardness there. It is the
Wahabbi ideology  and the oil money which brought the collapse of the
Republic of North Yemen and also in the south of Yemen which was a very
progressive and socialist country. It was destroyed by the Wahabbis. The
Saudi family made an embargo against south Yemen trying to destroy its
economy. They have played the same role in Somalia, Sudan and other
countries.

 

By 1996 Osama was saying Wahabbism is a reactionary movement. At that time
he was living in Sudan in Khartoum. At that moment he was having in depth
discussions with Hassan al-Turabi. Turabi had probably convinced him that
Wahabbism is the most reactionary sect. Al-Zwahiri himself is not a
Wahabbist.  Zwahiri is a nationalist using Islam. He is the most progressive
in a sense that he combines three things; nationalism in a modern sense, Mao
Tse Tung military technique of using Peoples War, and the third thing, he
rejects the reactionary ideology of Wahabbism. He says that there is a power
which is pulling the strings in Wahabbism. Zwahiri says, the more we fight
against them, the more their master will come and protect them and then the
population will know who is really ruling them. So I can understand that
Osama can change his opinion.

 

Taka: One can argue that post-1996, bin Laden's movement put itself on its
head. Pre-1996, in the period of fighting the Soviets and the ruling party
at that time, the Peoples Democratic Party in Afghanistan (PDPA), they were
being financed by petro-dollars through the intelligence services and
organisations in Pakistan and Saudi with the full support and backing of the
USA and Britain .

 

MH: Yes.

 

Taka: But post-1996 they turned this on its head .

 

MH: Yes.

 

Taka: From being essentially a pro-fedual, pro-imperialist movement, they
turned this round into a movement directed against US Imperialism and their
puppet regimes in the Arab nation and in the Islamic world generally .

 

MH: Yes.

 

Taka: From the aforementioned interview with Osama's bodyguard,
interestingly Abu Jandal states that there were many splits in the jihadi
movements in Afghanistan on this issue. He states that Zwahiri split with
most of his comrades in Egyptian Islamic Jihad on the issue of fighting US
Imperialism and their puppet regimes in the region. It can be argued that
this is the most important starting place to analyse this movement known as
al-Qaeda, or what was started in 1996 as the 'International Front Against
Crusaders and Jews'.

 

MH: For Zwahiri I think the split occurred long time before when he was in
prison. Once he was released from prison he had a very clear idea of what he
wants and what he wants to do. That's why he called his movement 'jihadist'.
When he says jihadist he means two things, in Islam there are two jihads,
the greater jihad and the smaller jihad. The smaller jihad is to defend
yourself when attacked, the bigger jihad is the struggle inside yourself. 

 

He understood very clearly the mechanism and theory of imperialism. I would
not be surprised that he studied Lenin for that matter, because his analysis
of imperialism was very very clear. As a result of that, of his split, he
was concentrating to infiltrate the Egyptian army. He utilised that
infiltration and he killed one of the most important puppets of the US in
the region, Sadat, the ruler of Egypt at the tme, was killed by the
jihadists. After that they went to prison and then after to Afghanistan. 

 

According to Zwahiri, they chose Afghanistan as a hiding place where they
can train and can create more of a base and bring more young people to their
ideas. At the time of Reagan in the US, at the time of his idea of the 'Evil
Empire' in regards to the USSR, The Saudis and Wahabbists were in alliance
with the US by pumping more oil in the world market to destroy the Soviet
economy. The Soviets lost ten billion dollars every year because the price
of oil reached ten dollars a barrel. This Saudi action at the behest of the
US also attacked the Iranian economy and their revolution; also they have
attacked countries such as Nigeria and Venezuela by pumping this amount of
oil in the international market. At that time they subsidised the
imperialist economies when the imperialists were facing severe crisis.
Inside the imperialist countries in the eighties, the idea was to support
the pro-Saudi ulemas [religious councils] here, to support the Imams. 

 

It was possible in the eighties in Belgium to open a mosque easier and
faster than it was to open a youth club. The Saudis have another tool, it's
called the 'Rabayat Islamiya', the International Islamic Organisation. This
organisation is connected to the International Organisation of the Christian
Democrats. They meet every year and they are both members of an organisation
called the 'Anti-Communist League'. Rabayat Islamiya has cells and offices
everywhere. The mosque in Brussels was built by Saudi money, it is very
clear. They are also connected to the most right-wing Catholic
organisations. 

 

The idea was to recruit Islamic youth born in the West for the war in
Afghanistan, then they were encouraging them to go and fight. They were not
terrorists then, they were good muhajideens. They were promoted as such,
invited to the White House. Now after 1996 Osama bin Laden stated that US
troops should leave Saudi Arabia, even the Ottomans never brought their
troops  to the holy lands, second, he criticised the embargo against Iraq
criticised the Saudis for their lack of support for the Palestinian Intifada
and he raised the issue of Palestine. 

 

The people who have supported Osama see injustice everywhere. They see the
money from Saudi oil is not used for their national interests. The
consciousness of the Saudi population had increased. So at that time the
Saudis took away Osama's passport and deported him to Sudan. That was when
al-Qaeda, meaning 'the base' was started. Then they became terrorists. 

 

Osama's movement tried to kill Mubarak of Egypt in Addis Ababa, and they
were seen as the enemy as they were targeting the real enemy of the Arab and
Muslim world. Now they are terrorists, yes. Terrorists from the perspective
of imperialists and their puppets.

 

Taka: You have talked about a lot of interesting things which may broaden
the study of this phenomenon. There is a severe lack of analysis on
Zwahiri's role in al-Qaeda in the West. Most of the commentaries are focused
on Osama bin Laden, very little is said on Zwahiri's role. Maybe it is
easier to muddy the waters in the Saudi context due to the little amount of
information from there, and there is a strong element of racism towards a
movement which is still trying to overthrow feudalism, whereas this has been
completed in the West for at least a century. Although Zwahiri if anyone at
knows about him is seen as the number two leader in al-Qaeda. However, as
you have said, and reading from his important work 'Knights Under the Banner
of the Prophet', he has played an equally important role to bin Laden in
revolutionising this movement into one directed against imperialism. Of
course Egypt is the biggest recipient of US military aid in the world and
is, along with Saudi Arabia, the  biggest bulwark against the Arab
revolution. What are your views on this lack of focus on his role in the
al-Qaeda leadership? 

 

MH: I think there are two people who had a positive and negative influence
on Osama. Osama before he met Zwahiri he met the Palestinian man Abdullah
Azzam. Azzam is not a jihadist. You can say he is the indirect father of
Hamas. As a Palestinian he had a very big influence on Osama. The way he
reasoned was that the Palestinian issue was the most important issue in
Islam and in the Arab world. He argued that any division amongst the Muslims
will weaken the Palestinian issue. Therefore to turn things upside down
against the Wahabbist regime would weaken the Palestinian issue. That's the
way Azzam reasoned. 

 

Azzam had a very big influence on Osama. When Zwahiri came he presented the
issue like this; it is true the Palestinian issue is the most important, but
the Palestinian issue is only a very small segment in comparison to the big
issue. Zwahiri said that overthrowing the regime in Saudi Arabia will bring
closer the liberation of Palestine.

 

Taka: This is very interesting because again and again you find Osama bin
Laden and Zwahiri are putting on the Arab political agenda issues have not
been put on the agenda which such force since the initial rise of the
Nasserite, Baathist and Arab Nationalist Movement in the fifties and
sixties. You can see that they are sweeping away the narrow nationalism that
had dealt a deadly blow to the Arab revolution before. It has been left,
funnily enough, to bin Laden and Zwahiri to raise these fundamental issues
to the Arab Revolution firmly and forcefully on the agenda once again.

 

MH: The Pan-Arabists, whether the Baathists or Nasserites had an influence
in the Saudi political situation in the fifties and the sixties. In 1953
there was the biggest Saudi demonstration of the Saudi working class. As a
result of that several clandestine political parties came about. There were
Nasserites, Baathists, Communists as well as even Maoists. The Nasserites
even influenced sections of the royal family, creating a split in the Saudi
royal family. The Nasserite trend was the strongest, then the Baathists and
then the communists in the trade unions. They were all in an alliance. The
Arab nationalists, anti-imperialists and communists didn't learn how to deal
and unify against the big enemy in a front, in which I mean how to solve the
contradiction amongst friends, and those with the enemy. Most of the time
the smallest thing split them and brought them into collisions with each
other. 

 

When this movement came about in the fifties in Saudi, the ruling class
kicked out all the Saudi workers and replaced them with foreign workers.
They wanted to make sure that no Saudi workers would develop a political
movement. They did not want to create the modern conditions which would then
bring about a serious problem for them. Later on the education and political
consciousness of the Saudi middle classes improved, and a national
bourgeoisie developed that has given birth to Osama bin Laden and his
movement.

 

Zwahiri also himself comes from an educated bourgeois background. His uncle
was the first Arab League Secretary General, another one of his Uncles was
the director of the world prestigious al-Azhar Islamic Institution in Egypt.
So his family is a very educated and high bourgeois family. Zwahiri as a
nationalist utilises Islam, and the most radical in the sense that he
combats US Imperialism. He developed a strategy that was to influence Osama
bin Laden. Osama bin Laden later accepted the political line of Zwahiri.
Zwahiri is in fact the ideological father behind al-Qaeda. Osama is a symbol
for Saudi Arabia and Zwahiri is a symbol for Egypt. Their idea is to have
very prominent people from every part of the Arab nation, and promote them
as into an umbrella organisation. In many Arab countries where there is no
constitution, no democracy, the only way you can convey your message to the
people is by taking the regimes ideology and saying ; you say you are
Islamic but you have  imperialist forces occupying here, you say you are
this, but you are doing something else. You say you are Islamic, but you
have no Shura, you have no constitution. Iran has a constitution as an
Islamic Republic. In Iran women study, in Iran women can work in public
places, in offices, in Iran even women join the police and the army. Why not
in Saudi Arabia? So they are raising all these questions, and these demands
have a big mass base. That is why I think the imperialist countries don't
speak about Saudi Arabia. It will frighten their economies into panic. 

 

Taka: We have to expect that silence or propaganda from the imperialists,
but as leftists it is worrying to see the leftists dire understanding
towards this movement. Of course it is made difficult if working people in
London are attacked, and it is absolutely right that we come to the defence
of these working people for example on the bus from the some of the poorest
working class areas of north east London. The left must defend these people;
nevertheless there is an urgent need to understand the political nature so
that we can have peace between the peoples. After the attacks on the World
Trade Centre, the Pentagon and White House on September the 11th, after
Madrid and now after London there has been a barrage of rhetoric from many
leftists that is using the same terminology as Tony Blair, of course with a
left sounding discourse, saying that the kamikaze attackers are
'barbarians', they are trying to destroy our society. What are your thoughts
on this? 

 

MH: I think the best answer is the result of the election of the Spanish
people. Normally when such kinds of terrorist attacks take place the
reaction is that the people and the government become united. But the
Spanish people proved that they didn't unite with the government, they voted
for another government on the condition that Spanish troops were withdrawn
and brought home from Iraq. So this is a very good lesson that the anger of
the Spanish people and their wise ness and sophistication. In fact they saw
the war as illegal and unilateral aggression against Iraq by the US and
Britain. 

 

In Great Britain, despite of the agony of the London attack, the people and
the left movement there have to understand one thing and educate themselves
that this war was brought from Baghdad to London because of Tony Blair. A
man who is a liar, who lied to the British people. It has been proved that
he lied about everything so why should believe him now? He is not
accountable to his own people; he is no different from the dictators of the
Third World. He is an elected dictator himself! He is using the British
youth as cannon fodder in Iraq; many of these young soldiers are suffering
from psychological problems. Most of them are from working class families,
it's not Tony Blair's children who are going to fight in the war or those of
the upper classes. 

 

If some young Muslims from a working class background face racism, who see
that their identity, their personality, their Islam being attacked day and
night. They see a Muslim country like Iraq illegally destroyed. They have
seen how Afghanistan was bombarded and how they destroyed that country on a
very fake pretext, and if they themselves decided to do what they did, I can
understand that. The Irish also, when they wanted to fight for their
independence, they did a lot of bombing in London and in Britain. I am not
endorsing this, but I can understand that, and as I have mentioned the
British Anglican and Catholic Church were much wiser than the left movement.
They put the point clearly, they said this was is an unjust war and it will
divide our multi-national and multicultural society, it will create
divisions, a Bantustan situation and bring a serious war into Britain. And
they were right; it is a correct and far sighted analysis from the church
leaders. 

 

The trade unionists and left movement has to go deep into the water and find
out what the problems the youth in Britain are facing. Why are these youth
who have been born there and brought up there . First of all it is very
clear to me that they are telling us that British born Muslim youths are
being recruited by al-Qaeda! This means that your education has failed, your
system failed. How can someone from outside from another education system
recruit British Muslim youth into al-Qaeda in front of the noses of the
British state?! There must a serious problem in the community. The British
system led them to be recruited into al-Qaeda if this is the case. For me it
is a normal reaction considering the situation, it will happen more. 

 

The last important thing I would like to say is that time is over when you
can go ten thousand kilometres away and you can bomb and kill and eliminate
people and still remain safe in the centre. In one of the speeches by Ho Chi
Minh he stated that between 1886 and 1911 over 8 million Congolese were
killed by the colonialists. There was no reaction and no one was punished
for that, but now I think it is not like before, you cannot go and bomb
outside. The retaliation of those who have been bombed will come back to the
centre. The situation has changed. 11th September proves this, so does
Madrid and now London and even other ones will prove this. 

 

The British people have a greater responsibility to who to vote for and what
kind of world they need. They cannot live peacefully while their leaders are
waging war everywhere and killing innocent people while they can live and
travel peacefully. It's not possible. I think the left has to understand
that and explain to their population. We are not in the time of the Berlin
Conference of 1884 of colonising the world, we are not in the 1920s, we are
in 2005. The last fifty years has changed dramatically the consciousness of
the Third World peoples, and I think one of the results is that if you touch
me, well .terrorism is always the weapon of the weak.

 

End of Part One

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

Che-Leila represents the unity of young men and women against imperialist
oppression and exploitation. The name comes from Che Guevara and Leila
Khaled.

 

It is a British based organisation and has no other sections outside of
Britain.

 
To contact Che-Leila, email  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  




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