The additional MUST from Steve's change should probably be rolled into not-finalized specs that have summarized Core requirements in a table ... Automation, Performance Monitoring, Reconciliation at least ... so when the next spec(s) come along and use them as examples, the change gets propagated. Since the WG leads are on cc here, they can handle in the respective specs.
Related note: I saw that the 'not' was neither capitalized nor bold. Since the intent was I think obvious, I just fixed it now. from: The Service SHOULD not return an error code for unrecognized content. to : The Service SHOULD NOT return an error code for unrecognized content. Best Regards, John Voice US 845-435-9470 BluePages Tivoli OSLC Lead - Show me the Scenario "Oslc-Core" <[email protected]> wrote on 10/17/2012 01:58:30 PM: > From: Steve K Speicher/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS > To: [email protected] > Date: 10/17/2012 02:01 PM > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > Sent by: "Oslc-Core" <[email protected]> > > At first edit, missed Arthur's approved suggestion to "MUST". Fixed that. > > Thanks, > Steve Speicher > IBM Rational Software > OSLC - Lifecycle integration inspired by the web -> > http://open-services.net > > "Oslc-Core" <[email protected]> wrote on 10/17/2012 > 10:03:40 AM: > > > From: Steve K Speicher/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS > > To: [email protected], > > Date: 10/17/2012 10:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > Sent by: "Oslc-Core" <[email protected]> > > > > I have incorporated this change with slight editorial changes [1]. > > This closes Issue-16 [2] > > > > [1] - > http://open-services.net/bin/view/Main/OslcCoreSpecification?rev=72 > > [2] - http://open-services.net/wiki/core/OSLC-Core-V2-Issues/ > > > > Thanks, > > Steve Speicher > > IBM Rational Software > > OSLC - Lifecycle integration inspired by the web -> > > http://open-services.net > > > > Arthur Ryman <[email protected]> wrote on 09/23/2012 09:40:41 PM: > > > > > From: Arthur Ryman <[email protected]> > > > To: James Conallen/Philadelphia/IBM@IBMUS, > > > Cc: [email protected], [email protected], > > Steve > > > K Speicher/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS > > > Date: 09/23/2012 09:40 PM > > > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > +1 except for stronger wording about errors: > > > > > > A Service provider MUST return an error code if recognized content is > > > invalid. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Arthur Ryman > > > > > > DE, Chief Architect, Reporting & > > > Portfolio Strategy and Management > > > IBM Software, Rational > > > > > > Toronto Lab | +1-905-413-3077 (office) | +1-416-939-5063 (mobile) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > James Conallen <[email protected]> > > > To: > > > Steve K Speicher <[email protected]> > > > Cc: > > > [email protected], [email protected] > > > Date: > > > 09/18/2012 09:16 AM > > > Subject: > > > Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > Sent by: > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, how about this update for the Unknown properties and content > > section: > > > > > > For OSLC Defined Resources, clients SHOULD assume that an OSLC Service > > > > will discard unknown property values. An OSLC Service MAY discard > > property > > > values that are not part of the resource definition or Resource Shape > > > known by the server. If a client needs verification that the > requested > > > update was accepted it SHOULD note the ETag returned with the PUT, > then > > > immediately GET the resource back and compare the ETag and contents > with > > > > > its expectations. The Service SHOULD not return an error code for > > > unrecognized content. A Service provider MAY return an error code if > > > recognized content is invalid. > > > > > > The rule is different for clients. When doing an update, OSLC clients > > MUST > > > preserve any unknown property-values and other content in OSLC Defined > > > > Resources. > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > jim conallen > > > Rational Design Management (DM) Integration Architect, OSLC AM Lead > > > [email protected] > > > Rational Software, IBM Software Group > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve K Speicher---09/18/2012 08:51:25 AM---+1 We are saying it can > > > happen, we just need a proposal for how clients can learn this. We > > > require > > > > > > From: Steve K Speicher/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS > > > To: [email protected], > > > Date: 09/18/2012 08:51 AM > > > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 We are saying it can happen, we just need a proposal for how > clients > > > can learn this. We require a round trip now: PUT, GET, then check. > > > > > > Steve Speicher > > > IBM Rational Software > > > OSLC - Lifecycle integration inspired by the web -> > > > http://open-services.net > > > > > > > From: Arthur Ryman <[email protected]> > > > > To: James Conallen/Philadelphia/IBM@IBMUS, > > > > Cc: [email protected], Adam Neal <[email protected]>, > > oslc- > > > > [email protected] > > > > Date: 09/14/2012 01:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > I think we may be stretching the analogy here. > > > > > > > > I am OK with you proposal: "I am ok if we just state that this > > scenario > > > > can happen, and that the client is responsible for determining if > the > > > > update was successful (from its view) by GETing the representation > > > > immediately after and checking the content and comparing the ETags." > > > > > > > > Pls draft some text and say where it should be included so we have a > > > > > concrete proposal on the table. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arthur Ryman > > > > > > > > DE, Chief Architect, Reporting & > > > > Portfolio Strategy and Management > > > > IBM Software, Rational > > > > > > > > Toronto Lab | +1-905-413-3077 (office) | +1-416-939-5063 (mobile) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > James Conallen/Philadelphia/IBM@IBMUS > > > > To: > > > > Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA > > > > Cc: > > > > Adam Neal <[email protected]>, [email protected], > > > > [email protected] > > > > Date: > > > > 09/13/2012 04:44 PM > > > > Subject: > > > > Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > > > > > > > > > Arthur, > > > > > > > > While I am not advocating that we respond with a 4xx when the server > > > > does > > > > not update a resource at a client's request. I point it out as an > > > example > > > > of how even RFC2616 requires some interpretation in context. > > > > > > > > What I do want to do is address this very real problem (that DM and > > RRC > > > > are experiencing) that clients have when attempting to update > > resources > > > > (in general). > > > > > > > > Using your own Java analogy, a program that essentially is > > > > > > > > x = -42; > > > > out.println( x ); > > > > > > > > where the output is +42, because this particular type of variable > only > > > > > > understands positive integers, and the programmer doesn't know this. > > > Now > > > > > > > > > > he is forced to check every time he makes an assignment before > > > proceeding > > > > with the program > > > > > > > > x = -42; > > > > if( x != -42 ) throw exception > > > > > > > > I think because the OSLC explicitly says that the server can ignore > > > > unrecognized content, and there is no guaranteed way for a client to > > > > know > > > > what content the server recognizes, the onus is on the client to be > > > > responsible for checking the results. I think we should provide > some > > > > guidance and raise awareness of this scenario in our specs > > > > (non-normatively), so client developers can be prepared for this > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > I am ok if we just state that this scenario can happen, and that the > > > > > client is responsible for determining if the update was successful > > (from > > > > > > > > > > its view) by GETing the representation immediately after and > checking > > > the > > > > content and comparing the ETags. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > jim conallen > > > > Rational Design Management (DM) Integration Architect, OSLC AM Lead > > > > [email protected] > > > > Rational Software, IBM Software Group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA > > > > To: James Conallen/Philadelphia/IBM@IBMUS, > > > > Cc: Adam Neal <[email protected]>, > [email protected], > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > Date: 09/13/2012 04:03 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > I disagree. The server ignored the content it didn't understand and > > did > > > > the update, but the before and after state was the same. According > to > > > your > > > > proposal, if I did a GET and then immediately PUT the resource, that > > > > > should also result in an error because nothing changed. That would > not > > > > > be > > > > reasonable. > > > > > > > > Consider the following Java program: > > > > > > > > int x = 42; > > > > x = 42; > > > > > > > > That shouldn't result in a compiler error. > > > > > > > > In fact, the behavior of the server is somewhat undefined if a PUT > > would > > > > > > > > > > result in no change to the resource. The server could try to be > clever > > > > > and > > > > only update the resource if some property changed. Or it could take > > the > > > > request literally and replace the resource with an identical copy, > but > > > > > as > > > > a side affect, the modification date of the resource might change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arthur Ryman > > > > > > > > DE, Chief Architect, Reporting & > > > > Portfolio Strategy and Management > > > > IBM Software, Rational > > > > > > > > Toronto Lab | +1-905-413-3077 (office) | +1-416-939-5063 (mobile) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > James Conallen/Philadelphia/IBM@IBMUS > > > > To: > > > > Arthur Ryman <[email protected]> > > > > Cc: > > > > Adam Neal <[email protected]>, [email protected], > > > > [email protected] > > > > Date: > > > > 09/07/2012 11:16 AM > > > > Subject: > > > > Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Arthur, > > > > > > > > The spec for the PUT method says: > > > > > > > > If an existing resource is modified, either the 200 (OK) or 204 (No > > > > Content) response codes SHOULD be sent to indicate successful > > completion > > > > > > > > > > of the request. If the resource could not be created or modified > with > > > the > > > > Request-URI, an appropriate error response SHOULD be given that > > reflects > > > > > > > > > > the nature of the problem. > > > > > > > > In this scenario the server did not modify the resource, because it > > > didn't > > > > recognize the content. So according to RFC 2616 we should be > > returning > > > an > > > > error response. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > jim conallen > > > > Rational Design Management (DM) Integration Architect, OSLC AM Lead > > > > [email protected] > > > > Rational Software, IBM Software Group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Arthur Ryman <[email protected]> > > > > To: James Conallen/Philadelphia/IBM@IBMUS, > > > > Cc: Adam Neal <[email protected]>, > [email protected], > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > Date: 09/07/2012 10:15 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -1 for the 400 response code > > > > > > > > Jim, I don't understand what you are asking for. The spec already > > makes > > > it > > > > > > > > clear that the server will discard unrecognized content. The client > > > should > > > > > > > > expect that. What aspect of behavior is unclear? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arthur Ryman > > > > > > > > DE, Chief Architect, Reporting & > > > > Portfolio Strategy and Management > > > > IBM Software, Rational > > > > > > > > Toronto Lab | +1-905-413-3077 (office) | +1-416-939-5063 (mobile) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > James Conallen <[email protected]> > > > > To: > > > > [email protected] > > > > Cc: > > > > Adam Neal/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA > > > > Date: > > > > 09/07/2012 09:03 AM > > > > Subject: > > > > [oslc-core] Unrecognized content > > > > Sent by: > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the current specification we have the statement: > > > > For OSLC Defined Resources, clients SHOULD assume that an OSLC > Service > > > > > > will discard unknown property values. An OSLC Service MAY discard > > > property > > > > > > > > values that are not part of the resource definition or Resource > Shape > > > > known by the server. > > > > > > > > We are running into a problem. When a client (in this case another > > > > application server) PUTs an update to a resource that includes a > > 'link' > > > to > > > > > > > > another OSLC resource, and the server, at the time does not > recognize > > > the > > > > link type, the link is not accepted, but a 200 OK is returned. The > > > server > > > > > > > > returns a 200 OK, because it feels like it can ignore the > unrecognized > > > > > > link. The client gets that 200 OK, and thinks that the link was > > > > successfully added. > > > > > > > > This doesn't feel right. The only way a client can be sure that the > > > PUT > > > > > > > > > > worked as expected is to re-GET the resource and compare it to what > it > > > > > > expected to see (with the new link included), and maybe do a little > > > > looking at ETags to make sure things haven't changed in between. > > > > > > > > I guess the server could instead return a 400 Bad Request, and > include > > > > > in > > > > the response the reason for not accepting the PUT. But if the > content > > > > > > that was submitted really should just be ignored (i.e. is part of a > > > future > > > > > > > > version of the resource), then we don't want to abort the update. > > > > > > > > The OSLC verbage does not provide any guidance as to what to do. It > > > > would > > > > > > > > be helpful if we had more detailed explanation of this statement in > > the > > > > spec. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > jim conallen > > > > Rational Design Management (DM) Integration Architect, OSLC AM Lead > > > > [email protected] > > > > Rational Software, IBM Software Group > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Oslc-Core mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://open-services.net/mailman/listinfo/oslc-core_open-services.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Oslc-Core mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://open-services.net/mailman/listinfo/oslc-core_open-services.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oslc-Core mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://open-services.net/mailman/listinfo/oslc-core_open-services.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oslc-Core mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://open-services.net/mailman/listinfo/oslc-core_open-services.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oslc-Core mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://open-services.net/mailman/listinfo/oslc-core_open-services.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oslc-Core mailing list > [email protected] > http://open-services.net/mailman/listinfo/oslc-core_open-services.net >
