Harrison and all, If an issue is aired several times, the only conclusion that I see that one can come to is that (1) it addresses a real concern of some people and that (2) it has not yet been solved. Maybe (3) it has not yet been framed correctly, or (4) it has not been presented, framed and solved in the correct space and time. Or maybe it is addressed by people out of a public list with public Archives, in ways that are, or not, correct. (if they are not public, only the insiders can know about that - if they can, as often people only see what their assumptions allow them to see). That said, I have nothing against facilitators being paid to Open Space - and paid not only (mainly) for the hours of the event, but for the hours they really spent, from preparation to debriefing. And I also don't have anything neither against training, nor about how much it costs. After all it is probably what the "market" is prepared to pay... I would prefer that no one could not attend a training if one cannot pay the fee, but the majority of us do that. I would also prefer that to be a genuine gift and not a "loan" that have to be repaid (with or without an interest), in money or in "work" (but this is only a matter of ethics and that change over time - after all to pay "loans" in work or in kind is what happened to all the servants in the middle ages...). The point is that: OST has became mainstream and apparently anyone can say "I am doing (or training) Open Space Technology", even if one does not know anything about it, or combines it with incompatible methods, etc. That worries me, as the future of OST worries me. And not because I want to compete on that market, but only for the sake of the truth and of the sake of aesthetics - only for the "elegance" of the minimalist foundations of OST... (By the way, I have also not anything against other "facilitation methods", but I would prefer things not to be mixed. Water, wine and oil are all liquids, but I don't think that mixing them to create a good drink is useful, and would not like to see someone mixing wine with water ant sell that as "pure wine". On the contrary, mixing gin with martini maybe ok, for those that like that mixing... (I don't, as I prefer red wine). But I would like that mixing to be made clear. From where I stand, OSlist and WOSonOS are to discuss OST, and not to discuss "facilitation methods in general". To make some clarity on what I said in the previous post, there are at least two different meanings of "certification": one is what Universities and some companies do: "after the completion of this education or training the student/trainee is prepared to do so and so". The second one is something that, at least in my country, is not done by Universities or training companies, but by professional bodies - organized communities of practice of the practitioners of a certain profession or method. They don't certify if someone is very skilled or not at all. They only certify that he follows accepted practices. It was this second meaning that I was looking for, but maybe this is not again the correct time and place. Indeed, I begin to wonder if this list is the appropriate place to talk about that, or about many other things, as it seems to me that, more and more, only what is "politically correct" is accepted and there is no longer space for what seems "strange" or controversial. When a community behaves like that, it begins dying, because it will never learn and innovate anymore. Have you ever thought of many old timers that are no longer contributing here, and the rate of replacement in this list? Many of them are still active - where are they? Give it a thought. Regards
Artur ________________________________ From: Harrison Owen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 9:12:45 PM Subject: Re: [OSLIST] OST training and "certification" - the role of OSIs? (was: Re: [OSLIST] Open Space Facilitation: Making it Work! 28-30 Sep 2010, Utrecht, The Netherlands Here we go again! Open Space is and always has been free. Of course if you want to pay somebody to train you in something that is yours by birthright, be my guest. That said, it can be very useful to do something like Lisa provides, as also Michael P and others (myself on occasion) – when a bunch of good folks collectively explore the wonderful world of Open Space. I am not sure I would call that training – maybe co-learning would be closer. However when it comes to “certification” I don’t have a clue how you would do that. Certainly you can “certify that X participated in a program”, but whether they have a clue what is going on – who can say? Frankly when I hear the word “certify” my immediate association is with mental aberrations. In American English, to say that “somebody is certifiable” means quite simply that they are nuts. But that might just fit, you know. JAnd certainly there was a time that if you said you were in Open Space people assumed you were smoking a controlled substance or had just plain lost it. Ah, The good old days! Harrison Harrison Owen 7808 River Falls Dr. Potomac, MD 20854 USA Phone 301-365-2093 www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html From:OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Artur Silva Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: OST training and "certification" - the role of OSIs? (was: Re: [OSLIST] Open Space Facilitation: Making it Work! 28-30 Sep 2010, Utrecht, The Netherlands Jack: This is a critical problem, in these days. Was OST a gift for all people that read the book (or not) and have a "good heart and a good mind" and where training is an additional aid for those that need that, or is it a business (or part of a business) for "self empowered "trainers"? And what is a "good heart"? And a "good mind"? Do the organizers from Merlin (that btw are mostly scholars, but you may became a member and have discounts for a Standard Individual Membership per year of 59.95 eur) and the facilitator of the course you mentioned have "a good heart" or an "old days Kansas" one? In Berlin, I was surprised to see the advertisement of a Program (presented as if it was a gift to the Access Queen") with a Certification Program costing 3.800 US $, with a four days part on "Working with OST" costing 650 US $. These prices are lower or greater the ones you mentioned? And including OST combined with other methods is still the "free" and "open" spirit of OST? Is it still OST? But "certification" is often a requisite for grants in the EU and I think elsewhere too. Who (and how) can 'certify' that someone that presents oneself as an "OST facilitator" is indeed using OST, and not mixing it with other methods that "facilitate too much" (having, for instance, people presenting themselves in groups of two, previously to the opening, or having "reflections in pairs" before the closing, or guiding them through the stages of Future Search in a so called OST meeting, to give only some examples)? I think that the Open Space Institutes around the world (and only OSIs, and not other "facilitation organizations", that use OST as one among many different tools, with many different epistemologies and values, frequently mixing and confusing them in a single so called OST event) can have a saying in relation to that. Something that, IMHO, does that care about the future of OST must consider carefully... Regards Artur ________________________________ From:Jack Martin Leith <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 9:11:56 AM Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Open Space Facilitation: Making it Work! 28-30 Sep 2010, Utrecht, The Netherlands My curiosity aroused by the announcement below, I visited www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html Very interesting. An OS facilitator training led by ... well, who, exactly? An OS facilitator training for, among others, professional conference companies. An OS facilitator training that costs €795.00. An OS facilitator training that provides participations with "a certificate awarded by the School of Advanced Facilitation". Ladies and gentlemen, 25 years down the track, we are not in Kansas anymore! Jack Jack Martin Leith Leith Co-creation email: [email protected] Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541) Skype: jackmartinleith Professional website: www.leithcocreation.com Personal website: www.jackmartinleith.com On 24 May 2010 23:59, OST Training <[email protected]> wrote: Open Space Facilitation: Making it work! How to design, plan and execute unconference meetings successfully 28-30 September 2010, Utrecht Event website: http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html About the workshop: The International Open Space Facilitator workshop, co-organised by the School of Advanced Facilitation (SAF) and Merlien Institute will be held on the 28-30 September 2010 in Utrecht, The Netherlands. Open Space offers your participants more than just talks, questions and poster sessions. It builds on the knowledge people bring to the event, harness their passion and give them the responsibility for discussing what really matters to them in a self-organising conference format. This workshop, conducted in English wiill equip you with the essential skills to design and execute an open space workshop or incorporate open space within your existing conference formats. Who should attend: This workshop is for meeting organisers and facilitators who will offer their participants the opportunity to tackle complex issues in a highly interactive, productive and self-structured "unconference" environment. The workshop is designed with meeting organisers and facilitators in mind who work for government agencies, educational institutions, European programmes and projects, professional conference companies and industry associations. Take advantage of this unique opportunity to equip yourself with skills to design and execute successful open space events. This two and half days course includes refreshments and lunches. Early-Bird registration is now open! To register, please visit: http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist* * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
