All, Regarding our list migration issue, have a look at NPO groups. Small company, very high quality. Been using them for three years for a list I manage for sustainability folks. Cost is 5 US dollars per month for any number of people. (That's for everybody, not per person.) Superior in ease and service to both Yahoo and Google.
Ralph Ralph Copleman O: 609-895-1629 C: 609-865-3466 H: 609-896-9714 Sent from my cell phone On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:00 AM, OSLIST automatic digest system <[email protected]> wrote: > There are 21 messages totalling 6192 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. making requests of leaders (2) > 2. oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act (14) > 3. oslist archives future (3) > 4. open space and heros > 5. SV: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:35:33 -0700 > From: Raffi Aftandelian <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: making requests of leaders > > Lisa, > Thanks much for taking the time to offer such a careful and considered > response. This was really helpful! Especially to hear that you don't do i= > t > most of the time and the importance of leaving one's own assumptions out.= > > > appreciatively, > Raffi > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:29:38 -0500 > From: Harrison Owen <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: making requests of leaders > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB9153.6BEC6A40 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Lisa my friend =96 I applaud the sensitive effort you obviously expend = > in the > =93prework.=94 But I think I find myself in a different place, perhaps = > only a > nuance away? In my conversations with the client prior to an Open Space = > I > find myself doing virtually everything you do, although me being me I = > seek > to do as little as possible =96 one more thing not to do. J Except =96 I = > have > never made any attempt to suppress or equalize the power equation. I = > have no > problem talking to anybody (CEO included) about their concerns in this = > area, > but that conversation is almost inevitably a short one. I simply tell = > them > not to worry about it. If it is suggested that senior managers should = > =93hold > back=94 my response is the same, perhaps sharpened a bit by my expressed > expectation that those senior managers (along with everybody else) will = > add > value. > > =20 > > I can understand that some may find my actions irresponsible, naive, or > both. Irresponsible in the sense that an extreme power play on the part = > of > some senior manager could be very painful, and I should prevent that > possibility. Na=EFve in the sense that I am seemingly blind to the = > destructive > power realities in many organizations. Possibly =96 but I do not think = > it is > my responsibility to =93fix=94 the organization. However, I fully accept = > the > responsibility to open some space so that the organization can fix = > (heal) > itself. There are some practical considerations here =96 I simply do = > not > possess the wisdom, time, or energy to unravel the organizational = > pathology. > However, what I lack, the people of that organization probably possess = > in > abundance, and if they don=92t, my feeble efforts will make little = > difference. > Indeed those efforts are very likely to make the whole situation worse. = > My > task is to create the time/space in which those people can identify = > their > own resources and bring them to bear on the issues at hand. > > =20 > > I have to tell you that what I have described above is directly opposed = > to > everything I thought I was supposed to be doing. Truth to tell, during = > the > first 25 years of my professional life I was a =93fixer=94 for sure. = > Give me a > good organizational pathology, and I was all over it like a tent with > resolution and brilliant solutions just moments away. Or so I thought. = > What > changed was Open Space which confronted me with the incredible = > restorative > powers of a self organizing system. Not always, not everywhere =96 for > organizations, like all other life forms, do die. But if there is life = > and > the will to live =96 the folks will find the way. Contrast all of this = > with my > powers as a fixer, and I wasn=92t even in the ball park. Talk about = > eating > Humble Pie!=20 > > =20 > > The last 25 years have been wonderful, although the diet of Humble Pie > continues. I have been privileged to work in some of the most massively > autocratic, dictatorial situations where it was presumed by one and all = > that > the operative power paradigm would simply carry over into the Open Space > producing pain and destruction for the trusting few who dared raise = > their > heads along with new and different ideas. I can=92t say that there were = > not a > few bumps along the way, or that all the new ideas found immediate > acceptance. Truthfully some of those new ideas were plainly stupid. = > However > the predicted carnage has never happened. And the truly good news is = > that > the people left with genuine empowerment. They knew they had done it all = > by > themselves =96 and nobody was pulling any punches. As for the formal = > leaders > (CEO and all those nasty senior manager types) they received the = > education > of a lifetime. They suddenly saw in glorious living color the robust > character of all those funny people called =93Employees.=94 > > =20 > > Will this always be true? I don=92t know, but it has worked so far. > > =20 > > =20 > > Harrison > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > Harrison Owen > > 7808 River Falls Dr. > > Potomac, MD 20854 > > USA > > Phone 301-365-2093 > > www.openspaceworld.com > > www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]: > > <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > =20 > > From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisa = > Heft > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: making requests of leaders > > =20 > > Raffi and others -=20 > > =20 > > In my experience and approach... > > =20 > > - everything in context, > > - do thorough pre-work, > > - be aware of culture > > - talk in advance about those things that support people of minority or > diverse viewpoint (not in the OS process but in such things as the > invitation, signage, whatever is appropriate) > > - analyze with the client what (Open Space or otherwise) is the right = > tool > for the task, time available, capacity and needs of the organization / > group, and so on. > > =20 > > So: in my pre-work conversations with the client - especially when I = > hear > about a group of mixed levels of perceived or actual power - we talk = > about > power dynamics.=20 > > And then if we agree after our analysis that Open Space is indeed the = > tool > we will be selecting for this event, sometimes the client says something > like "My managers will be there - and they are very into leading and > directing - and I can see that it is important to let all participants > experience co-leadership / self-leadership instead. What shall I tell my > managers so we can help them understand the benefit of not directing > everybody?" > > =20 > > So we talk about this, and either they say 'Okay I know what I will say = > to > them' or they say 'Can you give me some thoughts to help them keep in = > mind?' > and we work together in the context of what they are asking, their = > needs, > and their work culture. Sometimes the client / supervisor invites them = > to > come or not come, but if they come, to be full participants rather than > directive. Whatever s/he thinks works in her/his cultural context. = > Sometimes > they invite me to meet with the managers to answer their questions about = > the > upcoming Open Space. Sometimes we even meet at the hotel bar the night > before and have a casual chat. > > =20 > > And in those times I let them know that if they direct everyone they are > losing the benefit of this interactive process. It will tell them a = > great > deal about emergent leaders in their organization if they step back from > directing everything and see who shines. And I invite them to be = > themselves > - if they feel inspired to post a topic - especially something that = > comes up > from within as a juicy puzzle or inquiry - this is the place and time. =20 > > =20 > > Sometimes we talk about how if they jump up too soon to fill the space = > with > topics, will that leave space for others to emerge, given the power > dynamics? If they feel that may be an issue, I invite them to therefore = > let > others post their topics, see what comes up, go with the flow and then > announce any topic that inspires them. My response springs from their > pre-event inquiry. > > =20 > > Sometimes they want me to write up something as a reminder. So I do. > > =20 > > It is again: in context, it springs from conversations with the client = > and > their teams, they are often the ones who lead and inquire in this = > pre-event > exploration, and I'm there to answer their questions about what I have > noticed in other similar Open Spaces when people with great power mix = > with > people with lesser power in the meeting. All part of the conversation. > > =20 > > I don't do it automatically. I don't do it for every organization I = > perceive > to have a strong hierarchy. I don't do it most of the time.=20 > > That would be a cultural assumption, and it would not be about me = > listening > to them. > > =20 > > That, I think, is the nuance, Raffi. > > And the context. > > =20 > > Thanks for inviting this exploration, > > =20 > > Lisa > > =20 > > Lisa Heft > > Consultant, Facilitator, Educator > > Opening Space > > [email protected] > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Raffi Aftandelian wrote: > > > > > > Queridos amigos, > > Muchas gracias for your responses. And I'm surprised to hear at least = > based > on the current responses that this practice of encouraging "leaders" to = > hold > back is rather uncommon. > > I've cross-posted this question to the Genuine Contact list, too. > > abrazos,=20 > Raffi > > p.s.-- Querido Miguel- I think right now we're a little less lucky here = > in > San Diego (and hence if you're calling me a "lucky cat," that probably = > makes > me a little less feline, too)-- it has been rather cold here recently... > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > =20 > > * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] ------------------------------ To = > subscribe, > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20 > > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB9153.6BEC6A40 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";><head><meta = > http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Diso-8859-1"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word = > 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!-- > /* Font Definitions */ > @font-face > {font-family:Wingdings; > panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} > @font-face > {font-family:"Cambria Math"; > panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Calibri; > panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Tahoma; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Consolas; > panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:"Trebuchet MS"; > panose-1:2 11 6 3 2 2 2 2 2 4;} > /* Style Definitions */ > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal > {margin:0in; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:12.0pt; > font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} > a:link, span.MsoHyperlink > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:blue; > text-decoration:underline;} > a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:purple; > text-decoration:underline;} > p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate > {mso-style-priority:99; > mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; > margin:0in; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:8.0pt; > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} > span.apple-style-span > {mso-style-name:apple-style-span;} > span.EmailStyle18 > {mso-style-type:personal-reply; > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > color:#1F497D;} > span.BalloonTextChar > {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; > mso-style-priority:99; > mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} > .MsoChpDefault > {mso-style-type:export-only; > font-size:10.0pt;} > @page WordSection1 > {size:8.5in 11.0in; > margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > div.WordSection1 > {page:WordSection1;} > --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> > </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> > <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> > </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = > vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Lisa my friend – I applaud the sensitive effort you obviously = > expend in the “prework.” But I think I find myself in a = > different place, perhaps only a nuance away? In my conversations with = > the client prior to an Open Space I find myself doing virtually = > everything you do, although me being me I seek to do as little as = > possible – one more thing not to do. </span><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><s= > pan = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'> Except – I have never made any attempt to suppress or equalize = > the power equation. I have no problem talking to anybody (CEO included) = > about their concerns in this area, but that conversation is almost = > inevitably a short one. I simply tell them not to worry about it. If it = > is suggested that senior managers should “hold back” my = > response is the same, perhaps sharpened a bit by my expressed = > expectation that those senior managers (along with everybody else) will = > add value.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>I can understand that some may find my actions irresponsible, naive, = > or both. Irresponsible in the sense that an extreme power play on the = > part of some senior manager could be very painful, and I should prevent = > that possibility. Na=EFve in the sense that I am seemingly blind to the = > destructive power realities in many organizations. Possibly – but = > I do not think it is my responsibility to “fix” the = > organization. However, I fully accept the responsibility to open some = > space so that the organization can fix (heal) itself.=A0 There are some = > practical considerations here – I simply do not possess the = > wisdom, time, or energy to unravel the organizational pathology. = > However, what I lack, the people of that organization probably possess = > in abundance, and if they don’t, my feeble efforts will make = > little difference. Indeed those efforts are very likely to make the = > whole situation worse. My task is to create the time/space in which = > those people can identify their own resources and bring them to bear on = > the issues at hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>I have to tell you that what I have described above is directly = > opposed to everything I thought I was supposed to be doing. Truth to = > tell, during the first 25 years of my professional life I was a = > “fixer” for sure. Give me a good organizational pathology, = > and I was all over it like a tent with resolution and brilliant = > solutions just moments away. Or so I thought. What changed was Open = > Space which confronted me with the incredible restorative powers of a = > self organizing system. Not always, not everywhere – for = > organizations, like all other life forms, do die. But if there is life = > and the will to live – the folks will find the way. Contrast all = > of this with my powers as a fixer, and I wasn’t even in the ball = > park. Talk about eating Humble Pie! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>The last 25 years have been wonderful, although the diet of Humble = > Pie continues. I have been privileged to work in some of the most = > massively autocratic, dictatorial situations where it was presumed by = > one and all that the operative power paradigm would simply carry over = > into the Open Space producing pain and destruction for the trusting few = > who dared raise their heads along with new and different ideas. I = > can’t say that there were not a few bumps along the way, or that = > all the new ideas found immediate acceptance. Truthfully some of those = > new ideas were plainly stupid. However the predicted carnage has never = > happened. And the truly good news is that the people left with genuine = > empowerment. They knew they had done it all by themselves – and = > nobody was pulling any punches. As for the formal leaders (CEO and all = > those nasty senior manager types) they received the education of a = > lifetime. They suddenly saw in glorious living color the robust = > character of all those funny people called = > “Employees.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Will this always be true? I don’t know, but it has worked so = > far.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harrison<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com";>www.openspaceworld.com</a><o:p></o= > :p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com";>www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal = > Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To = > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of = > </span><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:blue'>oslist@listser= > v.boisestate.edu</span></a><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>:<o:p></o:p= >> </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>= > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></a><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div = > style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = > 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= > </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> = > OSLIST <a = > href=3D"mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]";>[mailto:OSLIST@LI= > STSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lisa Heft<br><b>Sent:</b> = > Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: making requests of = > leaders<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Raffi and = > others - <o:p></o:p></p><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>In my experience and = > approach...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- = > everything in context,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- = > do thorough pre-work,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- be = > aware of culture<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- talk in = > advance about those things that support people of minority or diverse = > viewpoint (not in the OS process but in such things as the invitation, = > signage, whatever is appropriate)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>- analyze with the client what (Open Space or = > otherwise) is the right tool for the task, time available, capacity and = > needs of the organization / group, and so = > on.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>So: in my pre-work conversations with the client - = > especially when I hear about a group of mixed levels of perceived or = > actual power - we talk about power = > dynamics. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>And then = > if we agree after our analysis that Open Space is indeed the tool we = > will be selecting for this event, sometimes the client says something = > like "My managers will be there - and they are very into leading = > and directing - and I can see that it is important to let all = > participants experience co-leadership / self-leadership instead. What = > shall I tell my managers so we can help them understand the benefit of = > not directing everybody?"<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>So we talk about this, and either they say 'Okay I = > know what I will say to them' or they say 'Can you give me some thoughts = > to help them keep in mind?' and we work together in the context of what = > they are asking, their needs, and their work culture. Sometimes = > the client / supervisor invites them to come or not come, but if they = > come, to be full participants rather than directive. Whatever s/he = > thinks works in her/his cultural context. Sometimes they invite me to = > meet with the managers to answer their questions about the upcoming Open = > Space. Sometimes we even meet at the hotel bar the night before = > and have a casual chat.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>And in those times I let them know that if they direct = > everyone they are losing the benefit of this interactive process. = > It will tell them a great deal about emergent leaders in their = > organization if they step back from directing everything and see who = > shines. And I invite them to be themselves - if they feel inspired to = > post a topic - especially something that comes up from within as a juicy = > puzzle or inquiry - this is the place and time. = > <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>Sometimes we talk about how if they jump up too soon = > to fill the space with topics, will that leave space for others to = > emerge, given the power dynamics? If they feel that may be an = > issue, I invite them to therefore let others post their topics, see what = > comes up, go with the flow and then announce any topic that inspires = > them. My response springs from their pre-event = > inquiry.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>Sometimes they want me to write up something as a = > reminder. So I do.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>It is again: in context, it springs from conversations = > with the client and their teams, they are often the ones who lead and = > inquire in this pre-event exploration, and I'm there to answer their = > questions about what I have noticed in other similar Open Spaces when = > people with great power mix with people with lesser power in the = > meeting. All part of the conversation.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I = > don't do it automatically. I don't do it for every organization I = > perceive to have a strong hierarchy. I don't do it most of the = > time. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>That would be = > a cultural assumption, and it would not be about me listening to = > them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>That, I think, is the nuance, = > Raffi.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>And the = > context.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for inviting this = > exploration,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>Lisa<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><di= > v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><= > div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div= >> <div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > class=3Dapple-style-span><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:blue'>Lisa Heft</span></b></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:#9B2C01'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><= > div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'>Consultant, Facilitator, = > Educator<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > class=3Dapple-style-span><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:blue'>Opening Space</span></b></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><o= > :p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > class=3Dapple-style-span><span = > style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></d= > iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= > v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div= >> </div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet = > MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On = > Nov 30, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Raffi Aftandelian = > wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = > style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Queridos amigos,<br><br>Muchas gracias = > for your responses. And I'm surprised to hear at least based<br>on the = > current responses that this practice of encouraging "leaders" = > to hold<br>back is rather uncommon.<br><br>I've cross-posted this = > question to the Genuine Contact list, too.<br><br>abrazos, = > <br>Raffi<br><br>p.s.-- Querido Miguel- I think right now we're a little = > less lucky here in<br>San Diego (and hence if you're calling me a = > "lucky cat," that probably makes<br>me a little less feline, = > too)-- it has been rather cold here = > recently...<br><br>*<br>*<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a><br>------------------------------<br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, = > change your options,<br>view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .edu</a>:<br><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://lists= > erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><br><br>To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.o= > rg/oslist</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, = > change your options, view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .edu</a>: <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://lists= > erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.o= > rg/oslist</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB9153.6BEC6A40-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:47:39 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > Subject: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --000e0cd1fc6abed9f504965ce695 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > gather round oslisters, and bring your keyboard! > > i'm just off the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their > servers. > > here is what we know... > > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of > next year. > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that) > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x > 12 years) > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser > application > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft > listserv host org > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help > with... now! > 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's available > if/when we want to use it > > that said... > > i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two pieces, past and future, > an archive and an ongoing conversation. if we can find another listserv > customer to adopt us, that solves both pieces. > > if not, then we need to talk here about options for each piece: > > 1. what sort of access is required for the archives? is it enough to make > them available online some place, as a giant set of text files (zipped up, > they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable online or just > downloadable for research mining purposes? what does anyone think about > raising community money year after year to sustain them in their current > browsable form? for the techies in our midst... if you want to think of > creative, non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it > can stay permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching, i.e. > convert archive text files to something browsable, you can download a sample > monthly log file here... http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 > > 2. as for the ongoing conversation, the best solution might be a > googlegroup. yahoogroup might be a close second. what other ways are there > out there on the web that might support our ongoing community conversation? > should we leave threaded email altogether? should we leave archiving aside > and all join facebook? (yikes!) should we learn to converse in > 140-character tweets? migrate to a forum at the ning site? should we turn > our convesations into a os-pedia using the same software as wikipedia > (probably better for organizing information than for actual convesation). > where should we take the oslist heart of our many global conversations? > > while we're having a chat about these two things, anyone and everyone is > invited to check this list... > http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp...to see if you know any > of these organizations well enough that you could > approach them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list into their > system. if you have an org to approach, then i can get you the technical > details they'll want to know about our list, so they know what they'd be > taking on. you would just need to make the IT contact and ask the > question. finding another listserv customer to adopt us is the FIRST BEST > solution. we might buy the service or license the software ourselves, but > as noted in previous emails, that is not cheap and must be paid annually. > > we have until june, but we've been strongly advised to do this as soon as > possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time, out of our > control, and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for > some time, with forwarding pointers from the old site. but those pointers > will disappear in june, too. > > so where should we go from here? and who knows any of those listserv > customers? > > m > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --000e0cd1fc6abed9f504965ce695 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > gather round oslisters, and bring your keyboard!=A0 <br><br>i'm just of= > f the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their servers.<br><= > br>here is what we know...<br><br>1. the oslist will cease to exist in its = > current form not later than june of next year.=A0 <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise sta= > te is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that)<br>4. = > our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. they will be in t= > he form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br>7. they can= > be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser application<br>8= > . the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft li= > stserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help = > with... now!<br>10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= > om">[email protected]</a> set up, so that's available if/when we = > want to use it<br> > <br>that said...<br><br>i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two = > pieces, past and future, an archive and an ongoing conversation.=A0 if we c= > an find another listserv customer to adopt us, that solves both pieces.=A0 = > <br> > <br>if not, then we need to talk here about options for each piece:<br><br>= > 1. what sort of access is required for the archives?=A0 is it enough to mak= > e them available online some place, as a giant set of text files (zipped up= > , they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable online or just = > downloadable for research mining purposes?=A0 what does anyone think about = > raising community money year after year to sustain them in their current br= > owsable form?=A0 for the techies in our midst... if you want to think of cr= > eative,=20 > non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it can stay > permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching, i.e.=20 > convert archive text files to something browsable, you can download a=20 > sample monthly log file here...=20 > <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904";>http://www.openspa= > ceworld.org/oslist.log9904</a>=A0 <br><br>2.=A0 as for the ongoing conversa= > tion, the best solution might be a googlegroup.=A0 yahoogroup might be a cl= > ose second.=A0 what other ways are there out there on the web that might su= > pport our ongoing community conversation?=A0 should we leave threaded email= > altogether?=A0 should we leave archiving aside and all join facebook?=A0 (= > yikes!)=A0 should we learn to converse in 140-character tweets?=A0 migrate = > to a forum at the ning site?=A0 should we turn our convesations into a os-p= > edia using the same software as wikipedia (probably better for organizing i= > nformation than for actual convesation).=A0 where should we take the oslist= > heart of our many global conversations?<br> > <br>while we're having a chat about these two things, anyone and everyo= > ne is invited to check this list... <a href=3D"http://www.lsoft.com/custome= > rs/customers.asp">http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp</a> ...to se= > e if you know any of these organizations well enough that you could approac= > h them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list into their system.= > =A0 if you have an org to approach, then i can get you the technical detail= > s they'll want to know about our list, so they know what they'd be = > taking on.=A0 you would just need to make the IT contact and ask the questi= > on.=A0 finding another listserv customer to adopt us is the FIRST BEST solu= > tion.=A0 we might buy the service or license the software ourselves, but as= > noted in previous emails, that is not cheap and must be paid annually.<br> > <br>we have until june, but we've been strongly advised to do this as s= > oon as possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time, out of our= > control, and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for s= > ome time, with forwarding pointers from the old site.=A0=A0 but those point= > ers will disappear in june, too.<br> > <br>so where should we go from here?=A0 and who knows any of those listserv= > customers?=A0 <br><br>m<br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herm= > an<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com"= >> http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a h= > ref=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a href= > =3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCorps.or= > g</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br>= > 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --000e0cd1fc6abed9f504965ce695-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:00:16 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > Subject: oslist archives future > > --0015174a050ae5f6f604965d139f > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > well, having launched those two questions about archives and future > conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things. > > as it turns out, the link i sent earlier... > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 does actually load up pretty > nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my > desktop, previously). > > so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would look > like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere. techies -- > tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page set up so > that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and search just > that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference to > the search terms? > > IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when they > were opened, the search terms would be highlighted. this might make things > easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just include > the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" function to locate > search terms in each page. > > main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives than > simply make these 150 long pages available for searching? > > does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search the archives we > have now??? if so... can you tell us something about your searching??? > > thanks, m > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --0015174a050ae5f6f604965d139f > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > well, having launched those two questions about archives and future convers= > ation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.<br><br>as it turns o= > ut, the link i sent earlier... <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/osl= > ist.log9904">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904</a> does actually= > load up pretty nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested = > it reading from my desktop, previously).=A0 <br> > <br>so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would = > look like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere.=A0 te= > chies -- tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page = > set up so that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and sear= > ch just that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made ref= > erence to the search terms?=A0 <br> > <br>IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when th= > ey were opened, the search terms would be highlighted.=A0 this might make t= > hings easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just i= > nclude the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" fu= > nction to locate search terms in each page.=A0 <br> > <br>main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives= > than simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?<br clear=3D= > "all">=A0<br>does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search th= > e archives we have now???=A0 if so... can you tell us something about your = > searching???<br> > <br>thanks, m<br><br><br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associa= > tes<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com";>http://MichaelHerman.com</a= >> <br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br= >> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h= > ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCorps= > .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org= > </a><br> > <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --0015174a050ae5f6f604965d139f-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 13:24:52 -0500 > From: Harrison Owen <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist archives future > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CB915B.2349ED50 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Michael - You are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through - if they > ever were. But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE organizations. Can we > get contact info? If so, could you tell us how? I'm thinking - supposing I > knew somebody at GWU, I think I would get further if I also had the IT > contact there. So my friend (if I had one) could make the connection. > > > > ho > > > > Harrison Owen > > 7808 River Falls Dr. > > Potomac, MD 20854 > > USA > > Phone 301-365-2093 > > www.openspaceworld.com > > www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]: > > <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael > Herman > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: oslist archives future > > > > well, having launched those two questions about archives and future > conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things. > > as it turns out, the link i sent earlier... > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 does actually load up pretty > nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my > desktop, previously). > > so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would look > like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere. techies -- > tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page set up so > that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and search just > that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference to > the search terms? > > IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when they > were opened, the search terms would be highlighted. this might make things > easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just include > the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" function to locate > search terms in each page. > > main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives than > simply make these 150 long pages available for searching? > > does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search the archives we > have now??? if so... can you tell us something about your searching??? > > thanks, m > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > * * ========================================================== > [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CB915B.2349ED50 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";><head><meta = > http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 = > (filtered medium)"><style><!-- > /* Font Definitions */ > @font-face > {font-family:"Cambria Math"; > panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Calibri; > panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Tahoma; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Consolas; > panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > /* Style Definitions */ > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal > {margin:0in; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:12.0pt; > font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} > a:link, span.MsoHyperlink > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:blue; > text-decoration:underline;} > a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:purple; > text-decoration:underline;} > span.EmailStyle17 > {mso-style-type:personal-reply; > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > color:#1F497D;} > .MsoChpDefault > {mso-style-type:export-only;} > @page WordSection1 > {size:8.5in 11.0in; > margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > div.WordSection1 > {page:WordSection1;} > --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> > </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> > <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> > </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = > vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Michael – You are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through = > – if they ever were. But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE = > organizations. Can we get contact info? If so, could you tell us how? = > I’m thinking – supposing I knew somebody at GWU, I think I = > would get further if I also had the IT contact there. So my friend (if I = > had one) could make the connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>ho <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>www.openspaceworld.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To = > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";><span = > style=3D'color:blue'>[email protected]</span></a>:<o:p></o:p= >> </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";><span = > style=3D'color:blue'>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<= > /span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div = > style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = > 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= > </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> = > OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of = > </b>Michael Herman<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 = > PM<br><b>To:</b> [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> = > oslist archives future<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>well, having = > launched those two questions about archives and future conversation, i = > need to wade into the archive side of things.<br><br>as it turns out, = > the link i sent earlier... <a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904";>http://www.openspac= > eworld.org/oslist.log9904</a> does actually load up pretty nicely in a = > browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my desktop, = > previously). <br><br>so anyone can take a look at this page and = > see what the archives would look like IF we just uploaded our 150ish = > files to a folder somewhere. techies -- tell us please -- could = > such folder not have a simple search page set up so that anyone could = > plug in what they wanted to search for and search just that folder, to = > return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference to the search = > terms? <br><br>IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf = > files, then when they were opened, the search terms would be = > highlighted. this might make things easier for scrolling through, = > or the search instructions could just include the suggestion to use your = > browser's "find in page" function to locate search terms in = > each page. <br><br>main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE = > with the oslist archives than simply make these 150 long pages available = > for searching?<br clear=3Dall> <br>does anybody out there go = > regularly or frequently to search the archives we have now??? if = > so... can you tell us something about your searching???<br><br>thanks, = > m<br><br><br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman = > Associates<br><br><a = > href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com";>http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCo= > rps.org</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br>3= > 12-280-7838 (mobile)<br>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CB915B.2349ED50-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:45:57 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist archives future > > --0015174c3fa844397904965db704 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > so far, the customer list itself is all we have. BUT... if we made a list > of the orgs where we have friends, our guy at boise state might be able to > tell us more about who to contact. there is a friendly network of listserv > admin folks and bsu guy has offered to help. > > m > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Harrison Owen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Michael =96 You are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through =96 if = > they >> ever were. But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE organizations. Can = > we >> get contact info? If so, could you tell us how? I=92m thinking =96 suppos= > ing I >> knew somebody at GWU, I think I would get further if I also had the IT >> contact there. So my friend (if I had one) could make the connection. >> >> >> >> ho >> >> >> >> Harrison Owen >> >> 7808 River Falls Dr. >> >> Potomac, MD 20854 >> >> USA >> >> Phone 301-365-2093 >> >> www.openspaceworld.com >> >> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> [email protected]: >> >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html >> >> >> >> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mic= > hael >> Herman >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* oslist archives future >> >> >> >> well, having launched those two questions about archives and future >> conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things. >> >> as it turns out, the link i sent earlier... >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 does actually load up pretty >> nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my >> desktop, previously). >> >> so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would lo= > ok >> like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere. techies= > -- >> tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page set up = > so >> that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and search just >> that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference= > to >> the search terms? >> >> IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when they >> were opened, the search terms would be highlighted. this might make thin= > gs >> easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just inclu= > de >> the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" function to locate >> search terms in each page. >> >> main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives >> than simply make these 150 long pages available for searching? >> >> does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search the archives = > we >> have now??? if so... can you tell us something about your searching??? >> >> thanks, m >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://RonanParkTrail.com >> http://ManorNeighbors.com >> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> [email protected] ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> [email protected]: >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> [email protected] ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> [email protected]: >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --0015174c3fa844397904965db704 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > so far, the customer list itself is all we have.=A0 BUT... if we made a lis= > t of the orgs where we have friends, our guy at boise state might be able t= > o tell us more about who to contact.=A0 there is a friendly network of list= > serv admin folks and bsu guy has offered to help.<br> > <br>m<br><br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael H= > erman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com";>http://Michael= > Herman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://RonanParkTra= > il.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h= > ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCorps= > .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org= > </a><br> > <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Harriso= > n Owen <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>hhowen@v= > erizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= > =3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); p= > adding-left: 1ex;"> > <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm= > al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Michael =96 Y= > ou are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through =96 if they ever were.= > But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE organizations. Can we get conta= > ct info? If so, could you tell us how? I=92m thinking =96 supposing I knew = > somebody at GWU, I think I would get further if I also had the IT contact t= > here. So my friend (if I had one) could make the connection.</span></p> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= > 25);">=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; = > color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">ho </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style= > =3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=A0</span></p> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= > 25);">Harrison Owen</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si= > ze: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">7808 River Falls Dr.</span></p><p class= > =3D"MsoNormal"> > <span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Potomac, MD 20854= > </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rg= > b(31, 73, 125);">USA</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s= > ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Phone 301-365-2093</span></p> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= > 25);"><a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com"; target=3D"_blank">www.opens= > paceworld.com</a></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size= > : 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com"; targe= > t=3D"_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)</span></p> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Conso= > las; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your optio= > ns, view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color: blue;">[email protected]= > du</span></a>:</span></p> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= > 25);"><a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; targe= > t=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color: blue;">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/ar= > chives/oslist.html</span></a></span></p> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= > 25);">=A0</span></p><div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-s= > tyle: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color= > -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b>= > <span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> OSLIST [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST@L= > ISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a= >> ] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Herman<br> > <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"= > mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">[email protected]= > ISESTATE.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> oslist archives future</span></p></div> > <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"></p><div><div></div><d= > iv class=3D"h5">well, having launched those two questions about archives an= > d future conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.<br><= > br>as it turns out, the link i sent earlier... <a href=3D"http://www.opensp= > aceworld.org/oslist.log9904" target=3D"_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.or= > g/oslist.log9904</a> does actually load up pretty nicely in a browser, when= > it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my desktop, previously).= > =A0 <br> > <br>so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would = > look like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere.=A0 te= > chies -- tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page = > set up so that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and sear= > ch just that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made ref= > erence to the search terms?=A0 <br> > <br>IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when th= > ey were opened, the search terms would be highlighted.=A0 this might make t= > hings easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just i= > nclude the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" fu= > nction to locate search terms in each page.=A0 <br> > <br>main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives= > than simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?<br clear=3D= > "all">=A0<br>does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search th= > e archives we have now???=A0 if so... can you tell us something about your = > searching???<br> > <br>thanks, m<br><br><br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associa= > tes<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://Mi= > chaelHerman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com"; target=3D"_bla= > nk">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://ManorNeighbo= > rs.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org"; target=3D"_bl= > ank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpace= > World.org" target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br> > <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br></div></div>* * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a hr= > ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">OSLIST@LISTS= > ERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubsc= > ribe, change your options, view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist@li= > stserv.boisestate.edu" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>= > : <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; target=3D= > "_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn a= > bout OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href=3D"http://www.openspacewo= > rld.org/oslist" target=3D"_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a> = > </div> > </div> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">OSLIST@= > LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; targ= > et=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>: > <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; target=3D"_= > blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist"; target=3D"_blank">http://w= > ww.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></blockquote></div><br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --0015174c3fa844397904965db704-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:53:27 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --20cf300259181e627b04965dd20d > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal? > > do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host and, > failing that, fall back to this option? > > m > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi Michael, >> >> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider. >> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free and >> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like the >> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that gives >> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations. >> >> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides a >> one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve >> software which is widely used: >> >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html >> >> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching in >> a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a >> little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. >> >> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization >> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost >> about $100 US a year. >> >> Harold >> >> >> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >> >> >> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june >> of next year. >> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups >> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with >> that) >> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD >> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x >> 12 years) >> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor >> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser >> application >> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft >> listserv host org >> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help >> with... now! >> 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's available >> if/when we want to use it >> >> >> >> -- >> Harold Shinsato >> [email protected] >> http://shinsato.com >> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >> > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --20cf300259181e627b04965dd20d > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > this sounds great, harold.=A0 osi-us could get us into the free deal?=A0 <b= > r><br>do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host = > and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br><br>m<br><br><br>=A0<br>--<= > br> > <br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://Mi= > chaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanPar= > kTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbo= > rs.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationC= > orps.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld= > .org</a><br><br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold = > Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>harol= > [email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" > s= > tyle=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204= > ); padding-left: 1ex;"> > > > =20 > =20 > =20 > <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> > Hi Michael,<br> > <br> > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to > consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start > using the free and open source list serve software that runs and > looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a > generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to > U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br> > <br> > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company > provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which= > is the > List Serve software which is widely used:<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html"; target=3D"_b= > lank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br> > <br> > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and > searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable > now. It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help > with that.<br> > <br> > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) > organization (which would make it free) going with this kind of > solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br> > <br> > =A0=A0=A0 Harold<div class=3D"im"><br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote type=3D"cite"><br> > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later > than june of next year.=A0 <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br> > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own > with that)<br> > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br> > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 > months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br> > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web > browser application<br> > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another > l-soft listserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone > can help with... now!<br> > 10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target= > =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> > set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</blockquote= >> > <br> > <br> > </div><font color=3D"#888888"><div>-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">harold@shins= > ato.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com= > </a><br> > twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; target=3D"_blank">@haj= > ush</a></div> > </font></div> > > </blockquote></div><br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --20cf300259181e627b04965dd20d-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:45:17 -0700 > From: Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> > <html> > <head> > <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" > http-equiv="Content-Type"> > </head> > <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> > Hi Michael,<br> > <br> > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to > consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start > using the free and open source list serve software that runs and > looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a > generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to > U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br> > <br> > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company > provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the > List Serve software which is widely used:<br> > <br> > <a > href="http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html";>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br> > <br> > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and > searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable > now. It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help > with that.<br> > <br> > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) > organization (which would make it free) going with this kind of > solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br> > <br> > Harold<br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote > cite="mid:[email protected]" > type="cite"><br> > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later > than june of next year. <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br> > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own > with that)<br> > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br> > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 > months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br> > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web > browser application<br> > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another > l-soft listserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone > can help with... now!<br> > 10. we already have <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a> > set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</blockquote> > <br> > <br> > <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br> > <a href="http://shinsato.com";>http://shinsato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush";>@hajush</a></div> > </body> > </html> > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:35:04 -0700 > From: Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> > <html> > <head> > <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" > http-equiv="Content-Type"> > </head> > <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> > Michael,<br> > <br> > This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board > would be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. > Hopefully you might still be willing to handle some of the admin > stuff - I don't know who is doing what for the current OSList serve. > But I think it does take a little attention to moderate new > subscribers to avoid spammers - that would be true for a Google > group too.<br> > <br> > I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list > serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system - > it is best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. > I've done searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas > about specific topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work > with two different search places.<br> > <br> > Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing > Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And > using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write > - so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.<br> > <br> > Cheers,<br> > Harold<br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote > cite="mid:[email protected]" > type="cite">this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into > the free deal? <br> > <br> > do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv > host and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br> > <br> > m<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > --<br> > <br> > Michael Herman<br> > Michael Herman Associates<br> > <br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="http://MichaelHerman.com";>http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > > href="http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br> > <br> > 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br> > <br> > <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold > Shinsato <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" > > href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> > wrote:<br> > <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt > 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); > padding-left: 1ex;"> > <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Michael,<br> > <br> > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option > to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed > to start using the free and open source list serve software > that runs and looks almost exactly like the current > ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that > gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br> > <br> > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting > company provides a one click install for the "Mailman" > program, which is the List Serve software which is widely > used:<br> > <br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html"; > > target="_blank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br> > <br> > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing > and searching in a similar way to how they are searchable > and browsable now. It would take a little techie work - but > I'd be happy to help with that.<br> > <br> > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) > organization (which would make it free) going with this kind > of solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br> > <br> > Harold > <div class="im"><br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote type="cite"><br> > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form > not later than june of next year. <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to > googlegroups<br> > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're > on our own with that)<br> > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br> > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files > (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text > editor<br> > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in > a web browser application<br> > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going > is another l-soft listserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is > something anyone can help with... now!<br> > 10. we already have <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="mailto:[email protected]"; > target="_blank">[email protected]</a> > set up, so that's available if/when we want to use > it</blockquote> > <br> > <br> > </div> > <font color="#888888"> > <div>-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="mailto:[email protected]"; > target="_blank">[email protected]</a><br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://shinsato.com"; > target="_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true" > href="http://twitter.com/hajush"; > target="_blank">@hajush</a></div> > </font></div> > </blockquote> > </div> > <br> > * > * > ========================================================== > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" > href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a> > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" > href="mailto:[email protected]:";>[email protected]:</a> > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" > href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" > href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a> > </blockquote> > <br> > <br> > <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br> > <a href="http://shinsato.com";>http://shinsato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush";>@hajush</a></div> > </body> > </html> > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:33:33 -0500 > From: Harrison Owen <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CB916D.1D659350 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Harold - will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this is a > no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure. > > > > ho > > > > Harrison Owen > > 7808 River Falls Dr. > > Potomac, MD 20854 > > USA > > Phone 301-365-2093 > > www.openspaceworld.com > > www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]: > > <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harold > Shinsato > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > > > Hi Michael, > > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider. > The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free and > open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like the > current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that gives > out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations. > > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides a > one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve > software which is widely used: > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html > > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching in > a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a > little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. > > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which > would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about > $100 US a year. > > Harold > > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > > > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of > next year. > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that) > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x > 12 years) > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser > application > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft > listserv host org > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help > with... now! > 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's available > if/when we want to use it > > > > -- > Harold Shinsato > [email protected] > http://shinsato.com > twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> > > * * ========================================================== > [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CB916D.1D659350 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";><head><meta = > http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 = > (filtered medium)"><style><!-- > /* Font Definitions */ > @font-face > {font-family:"Cambria Math"; > panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Calibri; > panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Tahoma; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Consolas; > panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > /* Style Definitions */ > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal > {margin:0in; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:12.0pt; > font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; > color:black;} > a:link, span.MsoHyperlink > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:blue; > text-decoration:underline;} > a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:purple; > text-decoration:underline;} > span.EmailStyle17 > {mso-style-type:personal-reply; > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > color:#1F497D;} > .MsoChpDefault > {mso-style-type:export-only; > font-size:10.0pt;} > @page WordSection1 > {size:8.5in 11.0in; > margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > div.WordSection1 > {page:WordSection1;} > --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> > </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> > <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> > </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite = > lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harold – will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so = > this is a no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure. = > <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>ho<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>www.openspaceworld.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To = > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";><span = > style=3D'color:blue'>[email protected]</span></a>:<o:p></o:p= >> </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";><span = > style=3D'color:blue'>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<= > /span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div = > style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = > 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt= > ext'>From:</span></b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt= > ext'> OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of = > </b>Harold Shinsato<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 = > PM<br><b>To:</b> [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: = > oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi = > Michael,<br><br>Thanks for all your research on this. There's another = > option to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to = > start using the free and open source list serve software that runs and = > looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a = > generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to U.S. = > 501(c)(3) organizations.<br><br>It takes very little administration - as = > the Web Hosting company provides a one click install for the = > "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve software which is = > widely used:<br><br><a = > href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html";>http://www.gnu.or= > g/software/mailman/index.html</a><br><br>And there is even a path to = > maintain the logs for browsing and searching in a similar way to how = > they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a little techie = > work - but I'd be happy to help with that.<br><br>Even if we didn't want = > get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which would make it = > free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about $100 US a = > year.<br><br> Harold<br><br>On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, = > Michael Herman wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>1. the = > oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of = > next year. <br>2. boise state is migrating their own lists to = > googlegroups<br>3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're = > on our own with that)<br>4. our archives will be delivered to us on a = > single CD<br>5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files = > (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br>6. these monthly files can be read = > easily in any text editor<br>7. they can be read less easily when opened = > directly in a web browser application<br>8. the BEST way to keep the = > archives and the list going is another l-soft listserv host org<br>9. = > finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help = > with... now!<br>10. we already have <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a> set = > up, so that's available if/when we want to use it<o:p></o:p></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal = > style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>-- <br>Harold Shinsato<br><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://shinsato.com";>http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter: <a = > href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush";>@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:windowtext'>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist = > <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CB916D.1D659350-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:49:18 -0800 > From: Chris Corrigan <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --Apple-Mail-10--603254145 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=windows-1252 > > I agree with you Harrison, and thanks to Michael for these many = > dedicated years of looking out for our list and openspaceworld.org. = > Harold, well done chiming in with a crisp solution. =20 > > Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains a simple option? > > Chris > ---- > Chris Corrigan > [email protected] > http://www.chriscorrigan.com > > > On 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote: > >> Harold =96 will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this = > is a no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure. >> =20 >> ho >> =20 >> Harrison Owen >> 7808 River Falls Dr. >> Potomac, MD 20854 >> USA >> Phone 301-365-2093 >> www.openspaceworld.com >> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of = > [email protected]: >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html >> =20 >> From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of = > Harold Shinsato >> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide = > and act >> =20 >> Hi Michael, >> =20 >> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to = > consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using = > the free and open source list serve software that runs and looks almost = > exactly like the current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting = > company that gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) = > organizations. >> =20 >> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company = > provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the = > List Serve software which is widely used: >> =20 >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html >> =20 >> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and = > searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. = > It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. >> =20 >> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization = > (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only = > cost about $100 US a year. >> =20 >> Harold >> =20 >> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >> =20 >> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than = > june of next year. =20 >> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups >> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with = > that) >> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD >> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 = > months x 12 years) >> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor >> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser = > application >> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another = > l-soft listserv host org >> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can = > help with... now! >> 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's = > available if/when we want to use it >> =20 >> =20 >> --=20 >> Harold Shinsato >> [email protected] >> http://shinsato.com >> twitter: @hajush >> * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --Apple-Mail-10--603254145 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=windows-1252 > > <html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://48/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: = > break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = > after-white-space; ">I agree with you Harrison, and thanks to Michael = > for these many dedicated years of looking out for our list and <a = > href=3D"http://openspaceworld.org";>openspaceworld.org</a>. Harold, = > well done chiming in with a crisp solution. = > <div><br></div><div>Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains = > a simple option?</div><div><br></div><div>Chris<br><div> > <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = > color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; = > font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = > letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: = > auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = > widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = > auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = > style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = > Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = > font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = > orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = > widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = > auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = > break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = > after-white-space; ">----<br>Chris Corrigan<br><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br>htt= > p://www.chriscorrigan.com<br><br></div></span></span> > </div> > <br><div><div>On 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:</div><br = > class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span = > class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = > font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = > font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = > orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = > widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = > auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div = > bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div = > class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: = > Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Harold =96 will the = > OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this is a no-brainer so far = > as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: = > Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); = > "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = > margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = > 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span = > style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: = > rgb(31, 73, 125); ">ho<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = > 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; = > font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; = > "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = > color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: = > Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Harrison = > Owen<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: = > 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = > font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span = > style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: = > rgb(31, 73, 125); ">7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: = > Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Potomac, MD = > 20854<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = > margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = > 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span = > style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: = > rgb(31, 73, 125); ">USA<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = > 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; = > font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; = > "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; = > color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Phone = > 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = > margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = > 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span = > style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: = > rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com"; = > style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; = > ">www.openspaceworld.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: = > Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a = > href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com"; style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = > underline; ">www.ho-image.com</a><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>(Personal = > Website)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = > margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = > 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span = > style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, = > 125); ">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the = > archives of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; "><span style=3D"color: blue; = > ">[email protected]</span></a>:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: = > Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; = > style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style=3D"color: = > blue; = > ">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></a><o:p></o:p= >> </span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; = > margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = > 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: = > 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); = > "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: = > none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: = > initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; = > border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; = > padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: = > 0in; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: = > 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New = > Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = > font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; = > ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, = > sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>OSLIST = > [mailto:[email protected]]<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Harold = > Shinsato<br><b>Sent:</b><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, December 01, = > 2010 1:45 PM<br><b>To:</b><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; = > ">[email protected]</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: oslist will end soon -- = > it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = > margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = > 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; = > "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: = > 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; = > font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">Hi = > Michael,<br><br>Thanks for all your research on this. There's another = > option to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to = > start using the free and open source list serve software that runs and = > looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a = > generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to U.S. = > 501(c)(3) organizations.<br><br>It takes very little administration - as = > the Web Hosting company provides a one click install for the "Mailman" = > program, which is the List Serve software which is widely = > used:<br><br><a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html"; = > style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; = > ">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br><br>And there is = > even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching in a similar = > way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a little = > techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.<br><br>Even if we = > didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which would = > make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about = > $100 US a year.<br><br> Harold<br><br>On 12/1/10 10:47 = > AM, Michael Herman wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = > margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = > 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><br>1. the = > oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of = > next year. <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>2. = > boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise = > state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with = > that)<br>4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. = > they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x = > 12 years)<br>6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text = > editor<br>7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web = > browser application<br>8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list = > going is another l-soft listserv host org<br>9. finding another listserv = > host organization is something anyone can help with... now!<br>10. we = > already have<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>set up, so that's available = > if/when we want to use it<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style=3D"margin-top:= > 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; = > font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; = > ">--<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Harold = > Shinsato<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://shinsato.com"; style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = > underline; ">http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter:<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; ">@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div = > style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = > margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', = > serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"color: windowtext; ">* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; = > ">[email protected]</a><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>-----------------------------= > - To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives = > of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a>:<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; = > style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; = > ">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; = > ">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div>* = > * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>-----------------------------= > - To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives = > of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a>:<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; = > style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; = > ">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span = > class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist"; style=3D"color: blue; = > text-decoration: underline; = > ">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></div></span></blockquote></div>= > <br></div></body></html>= > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --Apple-Mail-10--603254145-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:16:51 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --20cf30025918ef4dcb04965fd294 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's > proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and > ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a > separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd > have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best > option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list. > harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an > excellent one. > > if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old > guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle > of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, > repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution, > we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the > archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list. > > as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help > get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very > technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list > sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a > possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support > that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on. > > m > > > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Michael, >> >> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board would be >> happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. Hopefully you >> might still be willing to handle some of the admin stuff - I don't know who >> is doing what for the current OSList serve. But I think it does take a >> little attention to moderate new subscribers to avoid spammers - that would >> be true for a Google group too. >> >> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list serve >> style service - and to port the archives to the new system - it is best if >> all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. I've done searches on >> the archives in the past trying to get ideas about specific topics. It might >> get tricky for folks to have to work with two different search places. >> >> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing Google >> ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And using Google >> gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write - so you lose quite >> a few rights with a free Google service. >> >> Cheers, >> Harold >> >> >> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >> >> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal? >> >> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host and, >> failing that, fall back to this option? >> >> m >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://RonanParkTrail.com >> http://ManorNeighbors.com >> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider. >>> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free and >>> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like the >>> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that gives >>> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations. >>> >>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides >>> a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve >>> software which is widely used: >>> >>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html >>> >>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching >>> in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take >>> a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. >>> >>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization >>> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost >>> about $100 US a year. >>> >>> Harold >>> >>> >>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >>> >>> >>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june >>> of next year. >>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups >>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with >>> that) >>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD >>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x >>> 12 years) >>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor >>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser >>> application >>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft >>> listserv host org >>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help >>> with... now! >>> 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's available >>> if/when we want to use it >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Harold Shinsato >>> [email protected] >>> http://shinsato.com >>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >>> >> >> * * ========================================================== >> [email protected] ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> [email protected]: >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> >> >> -- >> Harold Shinsato >> [email protected] >> http://shinsato.com >> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >> > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --20cf30025918ef4dcb04965fd294 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's= > proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and a= > d-free(!) conversation.=A0 the archive part is included, but only as a sepa= > rate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive.=A0 we= > 9;d have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby.=A0 so the= > best option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to= > host our list.=A0 harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choi= > ce -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.<br> > <br>if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing.=A0 = > the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be = > in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envel= > ope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys.=A0 if we go with harold's= > solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things t= > o make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new lis= > t.<br> > <br>as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad = > to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything ve= > ry technical.=A0 and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into= > the list sheparding tasks (small as they might be).=A0 i have one query ou= > t to a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to= > support that connection.=A0 otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br= >> > <br>m<br><br><br><br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>M= > ichael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com";>http:/= > /MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://Rona= > nParkTrail.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h= > ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCorps= > .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org= > </a><br> > <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold S= > hinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>harold= > @shinsato.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st= > yle=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204)= > ; padding-left: 1ex;"> > > > =20 > =20 > =20 > <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> > Michael,<br> > <br> > This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board > would be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. > Hopefully you might still be willing to handle some of the admin > stuff - I don't know who is doing what for the current OSList serve= > . > But I think it does take a little attention to moderate new > subscribers to avoid spammers - that would be true for a Google > group too.<br> > <br> > I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list > serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system - > it is best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. > I've done searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas > about specific topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work > with two different search places.<br> > <br> > Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing > Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And > using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write > - so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.<br> > <br> > =A0=A0=A0 Cheers,<br> > =A0=A0=A0 Harold<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > </div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"= >> this sounds great, harold.=A0 osi-us could get us into > the free deal?=A0 <br> > <br> > do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv > host and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br> > <br> > m<br> > <br> > <br> > =A0<br> > --<br> > <br> > Michael Herman<br> > Michael Herman Associates<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://Michael= > Herman.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://RonanP= > arkTrail.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://ManorN= > eighbors.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org"; target=3D"_blank">htt= > p://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org"; target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSp= > aceWorld.org</a><br> > <br> > 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br> > <br> > <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold > Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= > m" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> > wrote:<br> > <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8e= > x; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> > <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> Hi Michael,<br> > <br> > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another optio= > n > to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed > to start using the free and open source list serve software > that runs and looks almost exactly like the current > ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that > gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br= >> > <br> > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting > company provides a one click install for the "Mailman"= > ; > program, which is the List Serve software which is widely > used:<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html"; targ= > et=3D"_blank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br> > <br> > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing > and searching in a similar way to how they are searchable > and browsable now. It would take a little techie work - but > I'd be happy to help with that.<br> > <br> > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) > organization (which would make it free) going with this kind > of solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br> > <br> > =A0=A0=A0 Harold > <div><br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote type=3D"cite"><br> > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form > not later than june of next year.=A0 <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to > googlegroups<br> > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're > on our own with that)<br> > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br> > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files > (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text > editor<br> > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in > a web browser application<br> > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going > is another l-soft listserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is > something anyone can help with... now!<br> > 10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= > om" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> > set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</= > blockquote> > <br> > <br> > </div> > <font color=3D"#888888"> > <div>-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">ha= > [email protected]</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://sh= > insato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; target=3D"_b= > lank">@hajush</a></div> > </font></div> > </blockquote> > </div> > <br></div></div> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">O= > [email protected]</a> > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= > :" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]:</a> > <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; targe= > t=3D"_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist"; target=3D"_blank">ht= > tp://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a> > </blockquote><div class=3D"im"> > <br> > <br> > <div>-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">harold@shins= > ato.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com= > </a><br> > twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; target=3D"_blank">@haj= > ush</a></div> > </div></div> > > </blockquote></div><br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --20cf30025918ef4dcb04965fd294-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:20:37 +0000 > From: Anne A Hiha <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --_1cdda647-0f4e-4f14-9f09-e90ff9663d3c_ > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > Michael thank you for holding the space for the continuation of that type o= > f space. > > Thank you too to Harold and others who have made it feel as though anything= > and everything is possible. > > I watch for further developments with trust and anticipation. > > Regards > > Anne > > Date: Wed=2C 1 Dec 2010 11:47:39 -0600 > From: [email protected] > Subject: [OSLIST] oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate=2C decide= > and act > To: [email protected] > > gather round oslisters=2C and bring your keyboard! =20 > > i'm just off the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their se= > rvers. > > here is what we know... > > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june o= > f next year. =20 > > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that= > ) > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly=2C 12 months = > x 12 years) > > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser appli= > cation > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft l= > istserv host org > > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help = > with... now! > 10. we already have [email protected] set up=2C so that's available i= > f/when we want to use it > > > that said... > > i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two pieces=2C past and futur= > e=2C an archive and an ongoing conversation. if we can find another listse= > rv customer to adopt us=2C that solves both pieces. =20 > > > if not=2C then we need to talk here about options for each piece: > > 1. what sort of access is required for the archives? is it enough to make = > them available online some place=2C as a giant set of text files (zipped up= > =2C they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable online or jus= > t downloadable for research mining purposes? what does anyone think about = > raising community money year after year to sustain them in their current br= > owsable form? for the techies in our midst... if you want to think of crea= > tive=2C=20 > non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it can stay > permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching=2C i.e.=20 > convert archive text files to something browsable=2C you can download a=20 > sample monthly log file here...=20 > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 =20 > > 2. as for the ongoing conversation=2C the best solution might be a googleg= > roup. yahoogroup might be a close second. what other ways are there out t= > here on the web that might support our ongoing community conversation? sho= > uld we leave threaded email altogether? should we leave archiving aside an= > d all join facebook? (yikes!) should we learn to converse in 140-characte= > r tweets? migrate to a forum at the ning site? should we turn our convesa= > tions into a os-pedia using the same software as wikipedia (probably better= > for organizing information than for actual convesation). where should we = > take the oslist heart of our many global conversations? > > > while we're having a chat about these two things=2C anyone and everyone is = > invited to check this list... http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp = > ...to see if you know any of these organizations well enough that you could= > approach them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list into their = > system. if you have an org to approach=2C then i can get you the technical= > details they'll want to know about our list=2C so they know what they'd be= > taking on. you would just need to make the IT contact and ask the questio= > n. finding another listserv customer to adopt us is the FIRST BEST solutio= > n. we might buy the service or license the software ourselves=2C but as no= > ted in previous emails=2C that is not cheap and must be paid annually. > > > we have until june=2C but we've been strongly advised to do this as soon as= > possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time=2C out of our con= > trol=2C and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for som= > e time=2C with forwarding pointers from the old site. but those pointers = > will disappear in june=2C too. > > > so where should we go from here? and who knows any of those listserv custo= > mers? =20 > > m > =20 > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe=2C unsubscribe=2C change your options=2C > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist = > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --_1cdda647-0f4e-4f14-9f09-e90ff9663d3c_ > Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html> > <head> > <style><!-- > .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px=3B > padding:0px > } > body.hmmessage > { > font-size: 10pt=3B > font-family:Tahoma > } > --></style> > </head> > <body class=3D'hmmessage'> > Michael thank you for holding the space for the continuation of that type o= > f space.<br><br>Thank you too to Harold and others who have made it feel as= > though anything and everything is possible.<br><br>I watch for further dev= > elopments with trust and anticipation.<br><br>Regards<br><br>Anne<br><br><h= > r id=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Wed=2C 1 Dec 2010 11:47:39 -0600<br>From: micha= > [email protected]<br>Subject: [OSLIST] oslist will end soon -- it's time= > to deliberate=2C decide and act<br>To: [email protected]<br><= > br>gather round oslisters=2C and bring your keyboard! =3B <br><br>i'm j= > ust off the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their servers= > .<br><br>here is what we know...<br><br>1. the oslist will cease to exist i= > n its current form not later than june of next year. =3B <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise sta= > te is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that)<br>4. our = > archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. they will be in the f= > orm of 150 monthly log files (roughly=2C 12 months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br>7. they can= > be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser application<br>8= > . the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft li= > stserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help = > with... now!<br>10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= > om">[email protected]</a> set up=2C so that's available if/when we wa= > nt to use it<br> > <br>that said...<br><br>i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two = > pieces=2C past and future=2C an archive and an ongoing conversation. = > =3B if we can find another listserv customer to adopt us=2C that solves bot= > h pieces. =3B <br> > <br>if not=2C then we need to talk here about options for each piece:<br><b= > r>1. what sort of access is required for the archives? =3B is it enough= > to make them available online some place=2C as a giant set of text files (= > zipped up=2C they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable onli= > ne or just downloadable for research mining purposes? =3B what does any= > one think about raising community money year after year to sustain them in = > their current browsable form? =3B for the techies in our midst... if yo= > u want to think of creative=2C=20 > non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it can stay > permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching=2C i.e.=20 > convert archive text files to something browsable=2C you can download a=20 > sample monthly log file here...=20 > <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904"; target=3D"_blank">= > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904</a> =3B <br><br>2. =3B= > as for the ongoing conversation=2C the best solution might be a googlegrou= > p. =3B yahoogroup might be a close second. =3B what other ways are = > there out there on the web that might support our ongoing community convers= > ation? =3B should we leave threaded email altogether? =3B should we= > leave archiving aside and all join facebook? =3B (yikes!) =3B shou= > ld we learn to converse in 140-character tweets? =3B migrate to a forum= > at the ning site? =3B should we turn our convesations into a os-pedia = > using the same software as wikipedia (probably better for organizing inform= > ation than for actual convesation). =3B where should we take the oslist= > heart of our many global conversations?<br> > <br>while we're having a chat about these two things=2C anyone and everyone= > is invited to check this list... <a href=3D"http://www.lsoft.com/customers= > /customers.asp" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.= > asp</a> ...to see if you know any of these organizations well enough that y= > ou could approach them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list int= > o their system. =3B if you have an org to approach=2C then i can get yo= > u the technical details they'll want to know about our list=2C so they know= > what they'd be taking on. =3B you would just need to make the IT conta= > ct and ask the question. =3B finding another listserv customer to adopt= > us is the FIRST BEST solution. =3B we might buy the service or license= > the software ourselves=2C but as noted in previous emails=2C that is not c= > heap and must be paid annually.<br> > <br>we have until june=2C but we've been strongly advised to do this as soo= > n as possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time=2C out of our= > control=2C and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for= > some time=2C with forwarding pointers from the old site. =3B =3B b= > ut those pointers will disappear in june=2C too.<br> > <br>so where should we go from here? =3B and who knows any of those lis= > tserv customers? =3B <br><br>m<br><br clear=3D"all"> =3B<br>--<br><= > br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://Mic= > haelHerman.com" target=3D"_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://RonanParkTra= > il.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com"; target=3D"_blank">http:= > //ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org"= > target=3D"_blank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org"; target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSpaceWor= > ld.org</a><br><br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe=2C unsubscribe=2C change your options=2C > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist </body> > </html>= > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --_1cdda647-0f4e-4f14-9f09-e90ff9663d3c_-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:21:41 +0100 > From: christine koehler <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: open space and heros > > --0016363b9d3a2f9d5a04965fe4ae > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Thank you all for your stories. I love them ! > I am reading them and will answer later. > Christine > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --0016363b9d3a2f9d5a04965fe4ae > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > <br>Thank you all for your stories. I love them ! <br>I am reading them and > will answer later.<br>Christine <br> > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --0016363b9d3a2f9d5a04965fe4ae-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:43:18 -0500 > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --Motorola-A-Mail-TD_2NWNMd8kY49sK > Content-Type: text/plain; Format="Flowed"; DelSp="Yes"; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Michael thank you so much for all you have done and are doing. Because of > you so many of us had a historical treasure trove of virtual conversations > with questions, dialogues and debates that are as relevant today as they > were when they were first posted. And Harold thank you so much for all this > technical behind the scenes expertise you are providing always looking for > solutions that reflect the self-organizing spirit of our collaborative > comminity. > > Suzanne an appreciative beneficiary of all this hard work. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > -----Original message----- > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, Jan 1, 1970 00:00:00 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's > proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and > ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a > separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd > have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best > option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list. > harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an > excellent one. > > if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old > guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle > of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, > repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution, > we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the > archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list. > > as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help > get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very > technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list > sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a > possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support > that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on. > > m > > > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Michael, >> >> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board would be >> happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. Hopefully you >> might still be willing to handle some of the admin stuff - I don't know > who >> is doing what for the current OSList serve. But I think it does take a >> little attention to moderate new subscribers to avoid spammers - that > would >> be true for a Google group too. >> >> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list serve >> style service - and to port the archives to the new system - it is best if >> all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. I've done searches > on >> the archives in the past trying to get ideas about specific topics. It > might >> get tricky for folks to have to work with two different search places. >> >> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing Google >> ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And using Google >> gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write - so you lose > quite >> a few rights with a free Google service. >> >> Cheers, >> Harold >> >> >> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >> >> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal? >> >> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host and, >> failing that, fall back to this option? >> >> m >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://RonanParkTrail.com >> http://ManorNeighbors.com >> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato > <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider. >>> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free > and >>> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like > the >>> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that > gives >>> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations. >>> >>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides >>> a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve >>> software which is widely used: >>> >>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html >>> >>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching >>> in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would > take >>> a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. >>> >>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization >>> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only > cost >>> about $100 US a year. >>> >>> Harold >>> >>> >>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >>> >>> >>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june >>> of next year. >>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups >>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with >>> that) >>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD >>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months > x >>> 12 years) >>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor >>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser >>> application >>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft >>> listserv host org >>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can > help >>> with... now! >>> 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's available >>> if/when we want to use it >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Harold Shinsato >>> [email protected] >>> http://shinsato.com >>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >>> >> >> * * ========================================================== >> [email protected] ------------------------------ To >> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> [email protected]: >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about >> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> >> >> >> -- >> Harold Shinsato >> [email protected] >> http://shinsato.com >> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >> > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > 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Hugs > > Thomas Herrmann > > =20 > > Fr=E5n: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] F=F6r Chris = > Corrigan > Skickat: den 1 december 2010 21:49 > Till: [email protected] > =C4mne: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act > > =20 > > I agree with you Harrison, and thanks to Michael for these many = > dedicated > years of looking out for our list and openspaceworld.org. Harold, well = > done > chiming in with a crisp solution. =20 > > =20 > > Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains a simple option? > > =20 > > Chris > > ---- > Chris Corrigan > [email protected] > http://www.chriscorrigan.com > > =20 > > On 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote: > > > > > > Harold =96 will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this is = > a > no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure. > > =20 > > ho > > =20 > > Harrison Owen > > 7808 River Falls Dr. > > Potomac, MD 20854 > > USA > > Phone 301-365-2093 > > www.openspaceworld.com > > www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > [email protected]: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > =20 > > From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harold > Shinsato > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act > > =20 > > Hi Michael, > > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to = > consider. > The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free = > and > open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like = > the > current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that = > gives > out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations. > > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company = > provides a > one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve > software which is widely used: > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html > > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching = > in > a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would = > take a > little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. > > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization = > (which > would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost = > about > $100 US a year. > > Harold > > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > > > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than = > june of > next year. =20 > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with = > that) > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months = > x > 12 years) > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser > application > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another = > l-soft > listserv host org > 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can = > help > with... now! > 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's available > if/when we want to use it > > =20 > > --=20 > Harold Shinsato > [email protected] > http://shinsato.com > twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>=20 > > * * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > [email protected] > ISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, > change your options, view the archives of = > [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] ------------------------------ To = > subscribe, > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > =20 > > * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] ------------------------------ To = > subscribe, > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20 > > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CB91AA.877E2490 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";><head><meta name=3DGenerator = > content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><base = > href=3D"x-msg://48/"><style><!-- > /* Font Definitions */ > @font-face > {font-family:Helvetica; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:"Cambria Math"; > panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Calibri; > panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Tahoma; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Consolas; > panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > /* Style Definitions */ > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal > {margin:0cm; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:12.0pt; > font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} > a:link, span.MsoHyperlink > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:blue; > text-decoration:underline;} > a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:purple; > text-decoration:underline;} > span.apple-style-span > {mso-style-name:apple-style-span;} > span.apple-converted-space > {mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;} > span.E-postmall19 > {mso-style-type:personal-reply; > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > color:#1F497D;} > .MsoChpDefault > {mso-style-type:export-only; > font-size:10.0pt;} > @page WordSection1 > {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; > margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;} > div.WordSection1 > {page:WordSection1;} > --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> > </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> > <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> > </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DSV link=3Dblue = > vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: = > space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div = > class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Sounds wonderful simple solution, to me – also a non-techie = > guy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Big big thanks for looking after this challenging situation for us, = > Michael and others! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Hugs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Thomas Herrmann<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div = > style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = > 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Fr=E5n:</spa= > n></b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSLIST = > [mailto:[email protected]] <b>F=F6r </b>Chris = > Corrigan<br><b>Skickat:</b> den 1 december 2010 21:49<br><b>Till:</b> = > [email protected]<br><b>=C4mne:</b> Re: oslist will end = > soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I agree with = > you Harrison, and thanks to Michael for these many dedicated years of = > looking out for our list and <a = > href=3D"http://openspaceworld.org";>openspaceworld.org</a>. Harold, = > well done chiming in with a crisp solution. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains a simple = > option?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = > style=3D'margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span = > style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac= > k'>----<br>Chris Corrigan<br><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br>ht= > tp://www.chriscorrigan.com<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On = > 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harold – will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so = > this is a no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.</span><span = > lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>ho</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Harrison Owen</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>7808 River Falls Dr.</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Potomac, MD 20854</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>USA</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Phone 301-365-2093</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com";>www.openspaceworld.com</a></span><= > span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com";>www.ho-image.com</a><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>(Personal = > Website)</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To = > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .edu</a>:</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://lists= > erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a></span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div = > style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = > 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= > </b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span= >> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>OSLIST = > [mailto:[email protected]]<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></b>Harold = > Shinsato<br><b>Sent:</b><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, December 01, 2010 = > 1:45 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Re: oslist will end soon -- = > it's time to deliberate, decide and act</span><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi = > Michael,<br><br>Thanks for all your research on this. There's another = > option to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to = > start using the free and open source list serve software that runs and = > looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a = > generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to U.S. = > 501(c)(3) organizations.<br><br>It takes very little administration - as = > the Web Hosting company provides a one click install for the = > "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve software which is = > widely used:<br><br><a = > href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html";>http://www.gnu.or= > g/software/mailman/index.html</a><br><br>And there is even a path to = > maintain the logs for browsing and searching in a similar way to how = > they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a little techie = > work - but I'd be happy to help with that.<br><br>Even if we didn't want = > get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which would make it = > free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about $100 US a = > year.<br><br> Harold<br><br>On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, = > Michael Herman wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'><br>1. the = > oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of = > next year. <span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br>2. = > boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise = > state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with = > that)<br>4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. = > they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x = > 12 years)<br>6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text = > editor<br>7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web = > browser application<br>8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list = > going is another l-soft listserv host org<br>9. finding another listserv = > host organization is something anyone can help with... now!<br>10. we = > already have<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>set up, so that's available = > if/when we want to use it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>--<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br>Harold Shinsato<br><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://shinsato.com";>http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter:<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush";>@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div= >> </div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>------------------------------= > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives = > of<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .edu</a>:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://lists= > erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.o= > rg/oslist</a><span = > style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>------------------------------= > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives = > of<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .edu</a>:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://lists= > erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span = > class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.o= > rg/oslist</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CB91AA.877E2490-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:03:59 -0800 > From: Chris Corrigan <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --Apple-Mail-14--598772814 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=us-ascii > > That makes sense... > > So as I understand it plan A is to have someone associated with an = > institution tat runs listservs (probably a university) agree to take on = > the hosting that Boise has done. If that works out, it's an easy matter = > to port all of the stuff over. > > PLan B is Harold's option. > > Thumbs up to that. > > I'm not associated with a university, but will put out the call on my = > network. > > Chris > ---- > Chris Corrigan > [email protected] > http://www.chriscorrigan.com > > > On 2010-12-01, at 1:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote: > >> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option = > he's proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, = > cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, = > but only as a separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old = > archive. we'd have an old archive and then start growing a new one, = > nearby. so the best option is still to find another "listserv" = > user/customer to host our list. harold's option, as he's noted, is a = > second choice -- but i'd say it's an excellent one. >> =20 >> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the = > old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in = > teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the = > envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with = > harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie = > things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to = > the new list. >> =20 >> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to = > help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very = > technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the = > list sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to = > a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to = > support that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on. >> =20 >> m >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> -- >> =20 >> Michael Herman >> Michael Herman Associates >> =20 >> http://MichaelHerman.com >> http://RonanParkTrail.com >> http://ManorNeighbors.com >> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >> =20 >> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >> =20 >> =20 >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> = > wrote: >> Michael, >> =20 >> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board would = > be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. Hopefully = > you might still be willing to handle some of the admin stuff - I don't = > know who is doing what for the current OSList serve. But I think it does = > take a little attention to moderate new subscribers to avoid spammers - = > that would be true for a Google group too. >> =20 >> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list = > serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system - it is = > best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. I've done = > searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas about specific = > topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work with two different = > search places. >> =20 >> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing = > Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And = > using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write - = > so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service. >> =20 >> Cheers, >> Harold >> =20 >> =20 >> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >>> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal? =20= > >>> =20 >>> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host = > and, failing that, fall back to this option? >>> =20 >>> m >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> -- >>> =20 >>> Michael Herman >>> Michael Herman Associates >>> =20 >>> http://MichaelHerman.com >>> http://RonanParkTrail.com >>> http://ManorNeighbors.com >>> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org >>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >>> =20 >>> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato = > <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Michael, >>> =20 >>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to = > consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using = > the free and open source list serve software that runs and looks almost = > exactly like the current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting = > company that gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) = > organizations. >>> =20 >>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company = > provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the = > List Serve software which is widely used: >>> =20 >>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html >>> =20 >>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and = > searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. = > It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that. >>> =20 >>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization = > (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only = > cost about $100 US a year. >>> =20 >>> Harold >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than = > june of next year. =20 >>>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups >>>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own = > with that) >>>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD >>>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 = > months x 12 years) >>>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor >>>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web = > browser application >>>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another = > l-soft listserv host org >>>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone = > can help with... now! >>>> 10. we already have [email protected] set up, so that's = > available if/when we want to use it >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> --=20 >>> Harold Shinsato >>> [email protected] >>> http://shinsato.com >>> twitter: @hajush >>> =20 >>> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist >> =20 >> =20 >> --=20 >> Harold Shinsato >> [email protected] >> http://shinsato.com >> twitter: @hajush >> =20 >> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --Apple-Mail-14--598772814 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=us-ascii > > <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = > -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">That = > makes sense...<div><br></div><div>So as I understand it plan A is to = > have someone associated with an institution tat runs listservs (probably = > a university) agree to take on the hosting that Boise has done. If = > that works out, it's an easy matter to port all of the stuff = > over.</div><div><br></div><div>PLan B is Harold's = > option.</div><div><br></div><div>Thumbs up to = > that.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not associated with a university, but = > will put out the call on my = > network.</div><div><br></div><div>Chris<br><div> > <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = > color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; = > font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = > letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: = > auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = > widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = > auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = > style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = > Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = > font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = > orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = > widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = > -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = > auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = > break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = > after-white-space; ">----<br>Chris Corrigan<br><a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br>htt= > p://www.chriscorrigan.com<br><br></div></span></span> > </div> > <br><div><div>On 2010-12-01, at 1:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:</div><br = > class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">looking = > back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's = > proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and = > ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as = > a separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old = > archive. we'd have an old archive and then start growing a new = > one, nearby. so the best option is still to find another = > "listserv" user/customer to host our list. harold's option, as = > he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.<br> > <br>if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much = > nothing. the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or = > maybe i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like = > opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if = > we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do = > some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, = > i think) to the new list.<br> > <br>as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad = > to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything = > very technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step = > into the list sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have = > one query out to a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i = > will stay on to support that connection. otherwise, i hope others = > will take this on.<br> > <br>m<br><br><br><br><br clear=3D"all"> <br>--<br><br>Michael = > Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a = > href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com/";>http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com/";>http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com/";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a= > = > href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org/";>http://ChicagoConservationCo= > rps.org</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org/";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br> > <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, = > Harold Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> = > wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt = > 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> > > > =20 > =20 > =20 > <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> > Michael,<br> > <br> > This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board > would be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. > Hopefully you might still be willing to handle some of the admin > stuff - I don't know who is doing what for the current OSList serve. > But I think it does take a little attention to moderate new > subscribers to avoid spammers - that would be true for a Google > group too.<br> > <br> > I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list > serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system - > it is best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. > I've done searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas > about specific topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work > with two different search places.<br> > <br> > Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing > Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And > using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write > - so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.<br> > <br> > Cheers,<br> > Harold<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > </div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div></div><div = > class=3D"h5">this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into > the free deal? <br> > <br> > do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv > host and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br> > <br> > m<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > --<br> > <br> > Michael Herman<br> > Michael Herman Associates<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br> > <br> > 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br> > <br> > <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold > Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> > wrote:<br> > <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt = > 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> > <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> Hi Michael,<br> > <br> > Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option > to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed > to start using the free and open source list serve software > that runs and looks almost exactly like the current > ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that > gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) = > organizations.<br> > <br> > It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting > company provides a one click install for the "Mailman" > program, which is the List Serve software which is widely > used:<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br> > <br> > And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing > and searching in a similar way to how they are searchable > and browsable now. It would take a little techie work - but > I'd be happy to help with that.<br> > <br> > Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) > organization (which would make it free) going with this kind > of solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br> > <br> > Harold > <div><br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote type=3D"cite"><br> > 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form > not later than june of next year. <br> > 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to > googlegroups<br> > 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're > on our own with that)<br> > 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single = > CD<br> > 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files > (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br> > 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text > editor<br> > 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in > a web browser application<br> > 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going > is another l-soft listserv host org<br> > 9. finding another listserv host organization is > something anyone can help with... now!<br> > 10. we already have <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> > set up, so that's available if/when we want to use = > it</blockquote> > <br> > <br> > </div> > <font color=3D"#888888"> > <div>-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; = > target=3D"_blank">@hajush</a></div> > </font></div> > </blockquote> > </div> > <br></div></div> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]:"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]:</a> > <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a> > </blockquote><div class=3D"im"> > <br> > <br> > <div>-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com/"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; = > target=3D"_blank">@hajush</a></div> > </div></div> > > </blockquote></div><br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected].= > EDU</a> > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected].= > edu</a>: > <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://listse= > rv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > <a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.or= > g/oslist</a> > </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --Apple-Mail-14--598772814-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:50:09 -0700 > From: Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> > <html> > <head> > <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" > http-equiv="Content-Type"> > </head> > <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> > Michael,<br> > <br> > Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our > archives as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be > pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The > advantage is that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer base, > and we would have full control over the webhosting - so it is less > likely we would have to face this issue again of worrying about > being homeless.<br> > <br> > For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port. > We'd just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to > moderate the list membership. I don't know of any email list > software that can protect you completely from trolls and spammers > without a human being involved. If there are others willing to help > with that task - it would be straightforward to explain how to do > that - even if they're not technically oriented.<br> > <br> > Harold<br> > <br> > P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people > have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in > testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link > to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting > process and host the results so folks could compare. As convenient > as it might be just to go from ListServe at Boise to some other > benefactor, it's not clear to me that's necessarily the best option.<br> > <br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote > cite="mid:[email protected]" > type="cite">looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems > that the option he's proposing is one way to go forward with a > new, manageable, cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation. the > archive part is included, but only as a separate part, meaning the > new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd have an old archive > and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best option is > still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list. > harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say > it's an excellent one.<br> > <br> > if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. > the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe > i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like > opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if > we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to > do some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand > beside, i think) to the new list.<br> > <br> > as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad > to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do > anything very technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have > others step into the list sheparding tasks (small as they might > be). i have one query out to a possible host, and if that host > materializes, then i will stay on to support that connection. > otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br> > <br> > m<br> > </blockquote> > <br> > <br> > <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br> > <a href="http://shinsato.com";>http://shinsato.com</a><br> > twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush";>@hajush</a></div> > </body> > </html> > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:03:57 -0600 > From: Michael Herman <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > --001636831b928a4b1004966228bc > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > oh, okay, harold. that's fine. i thought your previous message said > listserv to listserv was still the better option. i'm all for dumping it > and going open source. as an ordinary participant in this world, simply > posting the 150 monthly logs with and index/search page would be enough. > > so it seems the best way to go is the mailman route. now i also remember > seeing (and trading some emails with) a guy named anthony thompson, who's > posted steps for convernting listserv to mailman. he might be a resource > for you to tap. he was very willing to help and i don't recall there was > any huge cost associated with that help. > > as for getting the log files, the total package is 277MB (as of this > morning) and 75MB if it's all zipped. logs go back monthly to 1999. it'll > have to come by pony express on a CD. right now, i have only the one > month's file, link posted in my earlier message. can you do what you need > to with that one, for testing? or with several copies of it? if i get bsu > to send a dump of the thing now, i suppose i could get them to send the rest > later. can you do this migration in batches like that? anyway, tell me > what you think works best and i'll do it. > > m > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://RonanParkTrail.com > http://ManorNeighbors.com > http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Michael, >> >> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our archives as >> seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be pretty similar to a >> straight ListServe to ListServe port. The advantage is that MailMan is free, >> has a strong user/developer base, and we would have full control over the >> webhosting - so it is less likely we would have to face this issue again of >> worrying about being homeless. >> >> For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port. We'd >> just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to moderate the >> list membership. I don't know of any email list software that can protect >> you completely from trolls and spammers without a human being involved. If >> there are others willing to help with that task - it would be >> straightforward to explain how to do that - even if they're not technically >> oriented. >> >> Harold >> >> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people have >> posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in testing the >> porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link to the zip file of >> the archive files I could test the porting process and host the results so >> folks could compare. As convenient as it might be just to go from ListServe >> at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not clear to me that's necessarily >> the best option. >> >> >> >> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote: >> >> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's >> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and >> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a >> separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd >> have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best >> option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list. >> harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an >> excellent one. >> >> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old >> guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle >> of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, >> repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution, >> we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the >> archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list. >> >> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help >> get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very >> technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list >> sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a >> possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support >> that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on. >> >> m >> >> >> >> -- >> Harold Shinsato >> [email protected] >> http://shinsato.com >> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >> > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --001636831b928a4b1004966228bc > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > oh, okay, harold.=A0 that's fine.=A0 i thought your previous message sa= > id listserv to listserv was still the better option.=A0 i'm all for dum= > ping it and going open source.=A0 as an ordinary participant in this world,= > simply posting the 150 monthly logs with and index/search page would be en= > ough.=A0 <br> > <br>so it seems the best way to go is the mailman route.=A0 now i also reme= > mber seeing (and trading some emails with) a guy named anthony thompson, wh= > o's posted steps for convernting listserv to mailman.=A0 he might be a = > resource for you to tap.=A0 he was very willing to help and i don't rec= > all there was any huge cost associated with that help.<br> > <br>as for getting the log files, the total package is 277MB (as of this mo= > rning) and 75MB if it's all zipped.=A0 logs go back monthly to 1999.=A0= > it'll have to come by pony express on a CD.=A0 right now, i have only = > the one month's file, link posted in my earlier message.=A0 can you do = > what you need to with that one, for testing?=A0 or with several copies of i= > t?=A0 if i get bsu to send a dump of the thing now, i suppose i could get t= > hem to send the rest later.=A0 can you do this migration in batches like th= > at?=A0 anyway, tell me what you think works best and i'll do it.<br> > <br>m<br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herma= > n Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com";>http://MichaelHerm= > an.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com";>http://RonanParkTrail.c= > om</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com";>http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h= > ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org";>http://ChicagoConservationCorps= > .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org";>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org= > </a><br> > <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br> > <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Harold S= > hinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>harold= > @shinsato.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st= > yle=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204)= > ; padding-left: 1ex;"> > > > =20 > =20 > =20 > <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> > Michael,<br> > <br> > Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our > archives as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be > pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The > advantage is that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer base, > and we would have full control over the webhosting - so it is less > likely we would have to face this issue again of worrying about > being homeless.<br> > <br> > For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port. > We'd just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to > moderate the list membership. I don't know of any email list > software that can protect you completely from trolls and spammers > without a human being involved. If there are others willing to help > with that task - it would be straightforward to explain how to do > that - even if they're not technically oriented.<br><font color=3D"= > #888888"> > <br> > =A0=A0=A0 Harold<br> > </font><br> > P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people > have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in > testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a lin= > k > to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting > process and host the results so folks could compare. As convenient > as it might be just to go from ListServe at Boise to some other > benefactor, it's not clear to me that's necessarily the best op= > tion.<div class=3D"im"><br> > <br> > <br> > On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote: > <blockquote type=3D"cite">looking back at what harold sent earlier, it = > seems > that the option he's proposing is one way to go forward with a > new, manageable, cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation.=A0 the > archive part is included, but only as a separate part, meaning the > new messages won't hit the old archive.=A0 we'd have an old a= > rchive > and then start growing a new one, nearby.=A0 so the best option is > still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our = > list.=A0 > harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i&#= > 39;d say > it's an excellent one.<br> > <br> > if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing.= > =A0 > the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe > i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like > opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys.=A0 if > we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps othe= > rs to > do some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand > beside, i think) to the new list.<br> > <br> > as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am gla= > d > to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do > anything very technical.=A0 and going forward, i'd prefer to have > others step into the list sheparding tasks (small as they might > be).=A0 i have one query out to a possible host, and if that host > materializes, then i will stay on to support that connection.=A0 > otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br> > <br> > m<br> > </blockquote> > <br> > <br> > </div><div>-- <br><div class=3D"im"> > Harold Shinsato<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; target=3D"_blank">harold@shins= > ato.com</a><br> > <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com= > </a><br> > twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; target=3D"_blank">@haj= > ush</a></div></div> > </div> > > </blockquote></div><br> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > --001636831b928a4b1004966228bc-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 19:09:07 -0700 > From: Donna Read <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > <html><body><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10= > pt;"><div>Harold, Thanks so much for all you are doing. I belon= > g to a lot of lists but this is the best one I have ever belonged to.  = > ;I would hate to have something happen to it. I have learned so much in the= > three weeks I have belonged to it. Kind regards, Donna</div><div><br></div= >> <div><img title=3D"signature image" src=3D"cid:sigimg1@7800df548a56b992536= > dd2a4855f5d38" border=3D"0" alt=3D"" width=3D"469" height=3D"95"></div><div= >> <br><br></div> > <blockquote id=3D"replyBlockquote" webmail=3D"1" style=3D"border-left: 2px = > solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:blac= > k; font-family:verdana;"> > <div id=3D"wmQuoteWrapper"> > -------- Original Message --------<br> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide<br> > and act<br> > From: Harold Shinsato <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>harold@shi= > nsato.com</a>><br> > Date: Wed, December 01, 2010 4:50 pm<br> > To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > STATE.EDU</a><br> > <br> > Michael,<br> <br> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman wo= > uld keep our archives as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be= > pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The advantage is= > that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer base, and we would have = > full control over the webhosting - so it is less likely we would have to fa= > ce this issue again of worrying about being homeless.<br> <br> For OSList -= > we don't really need technical support after the port. We'd just need what= > ever support is getting done now on OSList to moderate the list membership.= > I don't know of any email list software that can protect you completely fr= > om trolls and spammers without a human being involved. If there are others = > willing to help with that task - it would be straightforward to explain how= > to do that - even if they're not technically oriented.<br> <br> &nbs= > p; Harold<br> <br> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listse= > rve - many people have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interes= > ted in testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link= > to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting process and = > host the results so folks could compare. As convenient as it might be just = > to go from ListServe at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not clear to m= > e that's necessarily the best option.<br> <br> <br> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Mic= > hael Herman wrote: <blockquote cite=3D"mid:AANLkTimEFaNjfHACYHS9501dO0-5Mvr= > [email protected]" type=3D"cite">looking back at what harold sen= > t earlier, it seems that the option he's proposing is one way to go forward= > with a new, manageable, cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation. the a= > rchive part is included, but only as a separate part, meaning the new messa= > ges won't hit the old archive. we'd have an old archive and then star= > t growing a new one, nearby. so the best option is still to find anot= > her "listserv" user/customer to host our list. harold's option, as he= > 's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.<br> <br>= > if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the = > old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh m= > iddle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, rep= > ackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution= > , we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the ar= > chive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list.<br> <br> a= > s for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help g= > et this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very technical.= > and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list shep= > arding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a poss= > ible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support th= > at connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br> <br> m= > <br> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br> Harold Sh= > insato<br> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>harold@= > shinsato.com</a><br> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://shinsato.com";>http= > ://shinsato.com</a><br> twitter: <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://twitte= > r.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a href=3D"= > mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a> -= > ----------------------------- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your option= > s, view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>o= > [email protected]</a>: <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.ed= > u/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html= > </a> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href=3D"http://= > www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>=20 > </div> > </blockquote></span></body></html> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:42:34 -0000 > From: Jon Harvey <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act > > ------=_NextPart_001_0272_01CB91E3.BB701680 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="UTF-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I bow to the technicians who are sorting this =E2=80=93 thank you!! I = > can only support what Donna says below =E2=80=93 although I have been a = > member for few more weeks than 3. > > =20 > > Keep up all the great work.=20 > > =20 > > Thanks again > > =20 > > Jon > > =20 > > _________________________________________________________________________= > ______ > > =20 > > Jon Harvey MBPsS > > Director > > =20 > > " <http://www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk/> www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk > > =20 > > ( +44 (0) 7771 537535 > > ( +44 (0) 1280 822585 > > =E2=80=BA <mailto:[email protected]> = > [email protected] > > =C2=B9 Skype: jonsharvey > > =20 > > JHAL logo.jpg > > Helping you connect the prose and the passion=20 > > to deliver superlative results > > =20 > > <http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/> = > http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/ for ideas about how to improve = > the efficiency & effectiveness of public & third sector services > > <http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/> = > http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/ for articles & ideas about = > leadership and organisational change from a whole systems perspective > > <http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey> http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey for = > conversations, ideas & questions to help build a more ambitious, = > creative and fair world > > <http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI> http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI to = > connect with me on LinkedIn > > =20 > > =20 > > Jon Harvey Associates Ltd > > Registered Office: Chandos House, School Lane, Buckingham, MK18 1HD > > Company Number 6661588. VAT Registration Number 936 2921 11=20 > > =20 > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.=20 > > All business mileage is offset with = > <http://www.carbon-clear.com/uk/index.php> http://www.carbon-clear.com > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Donna = > Read > Sent: 02 December 2010 02:09 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act > > =20 > > Harold, Thanks so much for all you are doing. I belong to a lot of = > lists but this is the best one I have ever belonged to. I would hate to = > have something happen to it. I have learned so much in the three weeks I = > have belonged to it. Kind regards, Donna > > =20 > > > > =20 > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide > and act > From: Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> > Date: Wed, December 01, 2010 4:50 pm > To: [email protected] > > Michael, > > Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our archives = > as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be pretty similar to = > a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The advantage is that MailMan is = > free, has a strong user/developer base, and we would have full control = > over the webhosting - so it is less likely we would have to face this = > issue again of worrying about being homeless. > > For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port. We'd = > just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to moderate the = > list membership. I don't know of any email list software that can = > protect you completely from trolls and spammers without a human being = > involved. If there are others willing to help with that task - it would = > be straightforward to explain how to do that - even if they're not = > technically oriented. > > Harold > > P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people have = > posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in testing the = > porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link to the zip file = > of the archive files I could test the porting process and host the = > results so folks could compare. As convenient as it might be just to go = > from ListServe at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not clear to me = > that's necessarily the best option. > > > On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:=20 > > looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's = > proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and = > ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a = > separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd = > have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the = > best option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host = > our list. harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd = > say it's an excellent one. > > if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old = > guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh = > middle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, = > repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's = > solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to = > make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new = > list. > > as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to = > help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very = > technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the = > list sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to = > a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to = > support that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on. > > m > > =20 > > --=20 > Harold Shinsato > [email protected] > http://shinsato.com > twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>=20 > > * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20 > > * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20 > > > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > ------=_NextPart_001_0272_01CB91E3.BB701680 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="UTF-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:x=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" = > xmlns:p=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" = > xmlns:a=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" = > xmlns:dt=3D"uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" = > xmlns:s=3D"uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" = > xmlns:rs=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z=3D"#RowsetSchema" = > xmlns:b=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" = > xmlns:ss=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" = > xmlns:c=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" = > xmlns:odc=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" = > xmlns:oa=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" = > xmlns:html=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"; = > xmlns:q=3D"http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/"; 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= > xmlns:udcs=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap"; = > xmlns:udcxf=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile"; = > xmlns:udcp2p=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart"; = > xmlns:wf=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/"; = > xmlns:dsss=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup"; = > xmlns:dssi=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig"; = > xmlns:mdssi=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-sig= > nature" = > xmlns:mver=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006= > " xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; = > xmlns:mrels=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationshi= > ps" xmlns:spwp=3D"http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages"; = > xmlns:ex12t=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types"= > = > xmlns:ex12m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messag= > es" = > xmlns:pptsl=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/= > " = > xmlns:spsl=3D"http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/Pub= > lishedLinksService" xmlns:Z=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" = > xmlns:st=3D"" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";><head><meta = > http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = > name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><!--[if = > !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} > o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} > w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} > .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} > </style><![endif]--><style><!-- > /* Font Definitions */ > @font-face > {font-family:Wingdings; > panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} > @font-face > {font-family:"Cambria Math"; > panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Calibri; > panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Tahoma; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:Webdings; > panose-1:5 3 1 2 1 5 9 6 7 3;} > @font-face > {font-family:Verdana; > panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} > @font-face > {font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC"; > panose-1:4 2 4 4 3 13 7 2 2 2;} > /* Style Definitions */ > p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal > {margin:0cm; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:12.0pt; > font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} > a:link, span.MsoHyperlink > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:blue; > text-decoration:underline;} > a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {mso-style-priority:99; > color:purple; > text-decoration:underline;} > p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate > {mso-style-priority:99; > mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; > margin:0cm; > margin-bottom:.0001pt; > font-size:8.0pt; > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} > span.EmailStyle17 > {mso-style-type:personal-reply; > font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; > color:#1F497D;} > span.BalloonTextChar > {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; > mso-style-priority:99; > mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; > font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} > .MsoChpDefault > {mso-style-type:export-only; > font-size:10.0pt;} > @page WordSection1 > {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; > margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} > div.WordSection1 > {page:WordSection1;} > --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"2050" /> > </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> > <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> > </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue = > vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>I bow to the technicians who are sorting this =E2=80=93 thank you!! I = > can only support what Donna says below =E2=80=93 although I have been a = > member for few more weeks than 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Keep up all the great work. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Thanks again<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'>Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'= >> <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1D1B1= > 1'>______________________________________________________________________= > _________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1D1B1= > 1'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>Jon Harvey MBPsS<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>Director<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#C00000'>"</spa= > n><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'= >> </span><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk/";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#4A442A'>www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk</s= > pan></a></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'= >> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#C00000'><o:p> = > ;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#C00000'>(</span><s= > pan = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#C0000= > 0'> </span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>+44 (0) 7771 537535<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#C00000'>(</span><s= > pan = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#C0000= > 0'> </span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>+44 (0) 1280 822585<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#C00000'>=E2=80=BA</= > span></b><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000= > 0'> </span></b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000= > 0'> </span><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#4A442A'>[email protected]</s= > pan></a></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#C00000'>=C2=B9</spa= > n></b><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000= > 0'>=C2=A0 </span></b><i><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>Skype</span></i><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>: jonsharvey</span><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000= > 0'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><img border=3D0 width=3D73 height=3D36 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" = > src=3D"cid:[email protected]" alt=3D"JHAL = > logo.jpg"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span = > style=3D'font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Tempus Sans = > ITC";color:#C00000'>Helping you connect the prose and the passion = > <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span = > style=3D'font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Tempus Sans = > ITC";color:#C00000'>to deliver superlative = > results<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://smallcreativeideas.blogsp= > ot.com/</span></a></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'> for ideas about how to improve the efficiency & = > effectiveness of public & third sector = > services<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://jonharveyassociates.blogs= > pot.com/</span></a></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'> for</span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'> </span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'>articles & ideas about leadership and organisational change from = > a whole systems perspective<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey</s= > pan></a></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'> for conversations, ideas & questions to help build a more = > ambitious, creative and fair world<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI";><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI</= > span></a></span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'> to connect with me on LinkedIn</span><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442= > A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>= > <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>= > Jon Harvey Associates Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>= > Registered Office: Chandos House, School Lane, Buckingham, MK18 = > 1HD<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>= > Company Number 6661588. VAT Registration Number 936 2921 11 = > <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>= > <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#098114'>= > Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you. = > <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#098114'>= > All business mileage is offset with </span></b><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><a href=3D"http://www.carbon-clear.com/uk/index.php";><b><span = > style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#C00000;t= > ext-decoration:none'>http://www.carbon-clear.com</span></b></a></span><sp= > an = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'= >> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= > D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div = > style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = > 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= > </b><span lang=3DEN-US = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSLIST = > [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Donna = > Read<br><b>Sent:</b> 02 December 2010 02:09<br><b>To:</b> = > [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: oslist will end = > soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and = > act<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> Harold, Thanks so much for all you are doing. I belong to a = > lot of lists but this is the best one I have ever belonged to. I = > would hate to have something happen to it. I have learned so much in the = > three weeks I have belonged to it. Kind regards, = > Donna<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> <o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> <img border=3D0 width=3D469 height=3D95 id=3D"_x0000_i1025" = > src=3D"cid:sigimg1@7800df548a56b992536dd2a4855f5d38"><o:p></o:p></span></= > p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> <o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote = > style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = > 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' = > id=3DreplyBlockquote><div id=3DwmQuoteWrapper><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> -------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: oslist will end soon = > -- it's time to deliberate, decide<br>and act<br>From: Harold Shinsato = > <<a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>><br>Date: = > Wed, December 01, 2010 4:50 pm<br>To: <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a><br><br>Michael,<br><br>Just a few clarifications - switching to = > Mailman would keep our archives as seamlessly integrated as they are = > now. It would be pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe = > port. The advantage is that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer = > base, and we would have full control over the webhosting - so it is less = > likely we would have to face this issue again of worrying about being = > homeless.<br><br>For OSList - we don't really need technical support = > after the port. We'd just need whatever support is getting done now on = > OSList to moderate the list membership. I don't know of any email list = > software that can protect you completely from trolls and spammers = > without a human being involved. If there are others willing to help with = > that task - it would be straightforward to explain how to do that - even = > if they're not technically oriented.<br><br> = > Harold<br><br>P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - = > many people have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested = > in testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link = > to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting process = > and host the results so folks could compare. As convenient as it might = > be just to go from ListServe at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not = > clear to me that's necessarily the best option.<br><br><br>On 12/1/10 = > 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's = > proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and = > ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as = > a separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old = > archive. we'd have an old archive and then start growing a new = > one, nearby. so the best option is still to find another = > "listserv" user/customer to host our list. harold's = > option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an = > excellent one.<br><br>if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty = > much nothing. the old guys will send all our stuff to the new = > guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated = > things like opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new = > guys. if we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps = > others to do some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on = > (stand beside, i think) to the new list.<br><br>as for harold's question = > about my continuing to support, i am glad to help get this set up, but = > i'm not likely qualified to do anything very technical. and going = > forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list sheparding tasks = > (small as they might be). i have one query out to a possible host, = > and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support that = > connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this = > on.<br><br>m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = > style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> <o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> -- <br>Harold Shinsato<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"; = > target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br><a = > href=3D"http://shinsato.com"; = > target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter: <a = > href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush"; = > target=3D"_blank">@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = > class=3DMsoNormal><span = > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'= >> * * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, = > change your options, view the archives of <a = > href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]= > .edu</a>: <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html";>http://lists= > erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a = > href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist";>http://www.openspaceworld.o= > rg/oslist</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><p = > class=3DMsoNormal>* * = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [email protected] = > ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your = > options, view the archives of [email protected]: = > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about = > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: = > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html> > * > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > [email protected] > ----------------------------- > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > ------=_NextPart_001_0272_01CB91E3.BB701680-- > > ------------------------------ > > End of OSLIST Digest - 30 Nov 2010 to 1 Dec 2010 (#2010-289) > ************************************************************ * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
