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* * 2013/9/30 Suzanne Daigle <[email protected]> > Thank you Arno. I had missed Michael Herman's two posts and so glad I got > to sink in them now on this day in Serbia with Jasmina Nikolic, a short > vacation but also working and breathing in Open Space together in work and > play. Thank you also Michael... again for these insights. > > Suzanne > > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Arno Baltin <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you, Michael! >> It helps, when I know the origin of the saying. >> >> Be well, >> >> Arno >> >> >> >> * * >> >> >> 2013/9/28 Michael Herman <[email protected]> >> >>> I learned this phrase in the context of meditation, Arno. I've heard >>> meditation teachers say about meditation practice that if we just "do the >>> practice" we'll get the results… usually this is in contrast to simply >>> talking about the practice or listening to teachings. This is akin to >>> saying "anyone with a good head and good heart can do open space…" anyone >>> who does the practice can get the same results that os >>> teachers/practitioners, from harrison onward, have gotten. Does this help? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, September 27, 2013, Arno Baltin wrote: >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> I like this conversation about what OS is. And this practice notion is >>>> a bit complicated. I as non Enlgish speaker I looked for the meanings of >>>> the word and got confused. Could you Michael say it in other words what you >>>> mean that OS is practice (first of all). Especially when I read "do the >>>> practice" I cant understand the meaning. >>>> >>>> Be well, >>>> >>>> Arno >>>> >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/9/25 Michael Herman <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> When I hear folks simplifying open space into a tool or technique, my >>>>> usual response is to point out that circle is a tool, bulletin board is a >>>>> tool, etc. Open Space is a *practice*, incorporating a number of >>>>> these different tools. And hopefully, my use of them together is getting >>>>> more and more skillful over time. To me, "practice" includes the >>>>> suggestion that we do it once, as best we can, and then we try again, and >>>>> again, learning and refining as we go. >>>>> >>>>> My felt sense of this is a little different from "values and >>>>> principles" though I don't think calling OS or agile or scrum that is >>>>> incorrect. For me the difference is that I hold values and principles, >>>>> but >>>>> practice is something that *holds me*. >>>>> >>>>> I also like to suggest that open space is a robust practice, a >>>>> sufficient practice. Everything that's needed is there in the basic story >>>>> and mechanisms. We don't need to do anything more, add in different >>>>> things. Just do the practice and we get the experience, get the learning, >>>>> the performance, the self-organizing, the breathing. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for your story, Harold. >>>>> >>>>> M >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Michael Herman >>>>> Michael Herman Associates >>>>> 312-280-7838 (mobile) >>>>> >>>>> http://MichaelHerman.com >>>>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Peggy Holman >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Harold, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for bringing your knowledgable and eloquent perspective. >>>>>> >>>>>> Great to see these two communities working through an understanding >>>>>> of each other. With you and others as translators, I think Agile is in >>>>>> good hands. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peggy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>> Peggy Holman >>>>>> Journalism that Matters >>>>>> 15347 SE 49th Place >>>>>> Bellevue, WA 98006 >>>>>> 425-746-6274 >>>>>> www.journalismthatmatters.org >>>>>> www.peggyholman.com >>>>>> Twitter: @peggyholman >>>>>> JTM Twitter: @JTMStream >>>>>> >>>>>> *Enjoy the award winning* Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into >>>>>> Opportunity <http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/> >>>>>> Check out my series on what's emerging in the news & information >>>>>> ecosystem<http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 23, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Harold Shinsato <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Harrison, >>>>>> >>>>>> About your statement "Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some >>>>>> new process, and especially to assure 'buy in'". >>>>>> >>>>>> You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is >>>>>> trying to promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking an >>>>>> alternative view from what you are saying given your founding status of >>>>>> this community - but perhaps given my 12+ years working in the Agile >>>>>> space >>>>>> - I have something worthwhile to say. >>>>>> >>>>>> Harrison, you've been opposed to calling "Open Space" a tool. And I >>>>>> hear Lisa Heft (the best Open Space trainer) talking about it being a >>>>>> tool >>>>>> all the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with both of you. Open Space is most emphatically *not* a >>>>>> tool at it's heart. It's a set of values and principles. But it is also >>>>>> definitely a tool. Or as Dan says, a 'game'. A beautifully designed game. >>>>>> >>>>>> Agile is most DEFINITELY not a process. It's a set of values and >>>>>> principles. You can see this in the Agile >>>>>> Manifesto<http://agilemanifesto.org/>- especially the first item, we >>>>>> value Individuals and Interactions *over* >>>>>> Processes and Tools. Yes, the Agile community applies many very specific >>>>>> tools and processes. And very heated debates happen around the >>>>>> application >>>>>> (or misapplication) of those tools and processes, such as Scrum. >>>>>> >>>>>> But oddly - even Scrum isn't *Really* a tool or a process. At the >>>>>> heart of Scrum is also a set of principles and values. If you want to >>>>>> get a >>>>>> sense of this - go to the end of the first book on Scrum, by Schwaber & >>>>>> Beedle "Agile Software Development with Scrum" - where it lists the 5 >>>>>> values of Scrum - Commitment, Focus, Openness, Respect & Courage. Or read >>>>>> Tobias Meyer's "The People's Scrum". Very powerful assertion and >>>>>> meditation >>>>>> on the core values and how to apply the processes to get >>>>>> >>>>>> Open Space has already been used with great success to introduce, >>>>>> promote and sustain Agile in the world through many uses of Open Space in >>>>>> conferences such as the AgileOpen, Coaching Camps, and Open Agile >>>>>> Adoption >>>>>> such as what Dan Mezick is explaining. From my vantage point, Open Space >>>>>> is >>>>>> critical for helping the values and principles to be successfully >>>>>> absorbed. >>>>>> >>>>>> From my vantage point - Open Space Technology's values and principles >>>>>> are eternal and aren't going away. The Universe won't suddenly stop >>>>>> self-organizing. If anything, we'll only get better at understanding and >>>>>> dancing with Order and Chaos. This dance, with the help of Open Space >>>>>> Technology the Game (or Tool) has changed my life and infused it with >>>>>> spirit. I'm eternally grateful to you, Harrison, to Lisa Heft, and to and >>>>>> this community. And maybe Open Space Technology the game or tool will >>>>>> pass >>>>>> away. The same goes for Agile values and principles. They're eternal. >>>>>> They're not going away. The Process will never be more important than the >>>>>> Individuals. The People are always more important than the Game. >>>>>> >>>>>> BUT - there are powerful forces behind trying to adopt agile as >>>>>> merely a tool or a process, because it's easier to understand. And that >>>>>> invites failure - and it's the exact kind of failure you're writing >>>>>> about, >>>>>> Harrison, about how our creations are "inevitably clunky." To succeed, >>>>>> any >>>>>> implementation of Agile or Scrum needs to be able to self-organize - >>>>>> "Inspect and Adapt" is one of the anthems of the agile and scrum >>>>>> communities. I hope that the Open Space community will step up and help >>>>>> the >>>>>> Agile community to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Harold >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/22/13 10:45 AM, Harrison Owen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan wrote: “I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail >>>>>> with Open Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There >>>>>> are many ways to stumble when trying this.”**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, Dan – I am not at all surprised. I learned a long time ago >>>>>> that Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new process, and >>>>>> especially to assure “buy in.” Typically, problems arise because folks >>>>>> take >>>>>> Open Space seriously. Instead of buying into the proposed process, they >>>>>> begin to invent their own! Somewhere I wrote that OS was a great way to >>>>>> design a new accounting system, but a horrible way to “implement” it. >>>>>> **** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And just to be contrarian... I wonder whether the failure is a >>>>>> function of Open Space or Agile (and/or the SCRUM flavor of Agile)? As I >>>>>> think we have come to understand, Open Space is a total scam if people >>>>>> mistake it for some process we invented or “do.” It is simply an >>>>>> invitation >>>>>> to be what we always have been – self organizing. The process itself (SO) >>>>>> has been around for some time, and apparently has done quite well, >>>>>> witness >>>>>> the fact that we, along with all the rest of the Cosmos are here and >>>>>> seemingly functional. In a “face off” between a well functioning >>>>>> self-organizing system and any process we might have designed to create >>>>>> the >>>>>> system, install the system, or enhance the system – the designed process >>>>>> doesn’t have a chance. The reason is simple. No matter how wise, careful, >>>>>> diligent or skillful we may be – our creation is inevitably clunky. We >>>>>> may >>>>>> get the big blocks right, even some of the finer points, but at the end >>>>>> of >>>>>> the day we always miss the nuances – and as always, the devil is in the >>>>>> details. Put somewhat differently, our designed processes are always >>>>>> “averages” of what we think the process should look like. And “averages” >>>>>> do >>>>>> not exist anywhere in nature. To push an “average” on a natural system is >>>>>> always to make it function at some sub-optimal level, and usually to kill >>>>>> it.**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So maybe the order of precedence should go the other way? Use Agile >>>>>> to introduce Open Space, and then abolish Agile. Or, if you like ... >>>>>> Self-Organization is the natural agility. It doesn’t get any better than >>>>>> that. Or something**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Harrison**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> **** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Harrison Owen**** >>>>>> >>>>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.**** >>>>>> >>>>>> Potomac, MD 20854**** >>>>>> >>>>>> USA**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)**** >>>>>> >>>>>> Camden, Maine 04843**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone 301-365-2093**** >>>>>> >>>>>> (summer) 207-763-3261**** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> www.openspaceworld.com **** >>>>>> >>>>>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)**** >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >>>>>> OSLIST Go to: >>>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org* >>>>>> *** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* [email protected] [ >>>>>> mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Daniel >>>>>> Mezick >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:26 AM >>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>> *Subject:* [OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns**** >>>>>> >>>>>> ** ** >>>>>> >>>>>> Greetings to you, >>>>>> >>>>>> In Paris this week at the Global Scrum Gathering I plan to issue >>>>>> certain warning about specific failure patterns I have experienced when >>>>>> working with Open Space inside Agile adoptions. I can tell you right now >>>>>> that Open Space by itself is not a panacea for the complex problems >>>>>> associated with Agile adoption. >>>>>> >>>>>> Agile is actually a cover story about the wider act of bringing >>>>>> culture change (a new and unfamiliar game) to an enterprise situation >>>>>> (the >>>>>> old story we all want to cling to). The SPIRIT book pretty much spells >>>>>> out >>>>>> the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail with Open >>>>>> Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There are many >>>>>> ways to stumble when trying this. I'll be enumerating some of these >>>>>> subtle >>>>>> Agile-related pitfalls and traps in the Paris keynote on Tuesday, and in >>>>>> upcoming blog posts. Simply holding one or more canonical Open Space >>>>>> meetings (with full pre-planning and post processing) is not enough to >>>>>> neutralize the forces that oppose healthy and well Agile adoptions. The >>>>>> game mechanics, storytelling and passage-rite-structure elements must be >>>>>> present and robust for Open Space to be an effective tool in Agile >>>>>> adoptions. Open Space and these elements are composed in harmony with >>>>>> each >>>>>> other in the Open Agile Adoption technique. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you offer training in Open Space for Facilitators and/or Sponsors, >>>>>> I invite you to send me your links and I will make sure they are added to >>>>>> the list of resources I am beginning to compile at >>>>>> OpenAgileAdoption.com. I plan to list in the Paris slides some >>>>>> specific French-language OST course offerings from French-speaking >>>>>> instructors located in Europe, and Quebec. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>> Dan**** >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> **** >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel Mezick, President**** >>>>>> >>>>>> New Technology Solutions Inc.**** >>>>>> >>>>>> (203) 915 7248 (cell)**** >>>>>> >>>>>> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. >>>>>> Blog<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. >>>>>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. **** >>>>>> >>>>>> Examine my new book: The Culture Game >>>>>> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the >>>>>> Agile Manager.**** >>>>>> >>>>>> Explore Agile Team >>>>>> Training<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/>and >>>>>> Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>**** >>>>>> >>>>>> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/> >>>>>> Community. **** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OSList mailing list >>>>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click >>>>>> below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Harold Shinsato >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://shinsato.com >>>>>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OSList mailing list >>>>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OSList mailing list >>>>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OSList mailing list >>>>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Herman >>> MichaelHerman.com >>> (312) 280-7838 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> > > > -- > Suzanne Daigle > NuFocus Strategic Group > 7159 Victoria Circle > University Park, FL 34201 > FL 941-359-8877; > CT 203-722-2009 > www.nufocusgroup.com > [email protected] > twitter @suzannedaigle > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > >
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