Friends, Having finally gotten current with list messages, I'm tapping into the current thread on civil conversation. Seems, as the message below shows, this idea is being explored in a variety of ways. Thoughts?
from cool and cloudy Seatte, Peggy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Atlee" <[email protected]> To: "Vicki Robin" <[email protected]> Cc: "Juanita Brown" <[email protected]>; "Sandy Heierbacher" <[email protected]>; "Peggy Holman" <[email protected]>; "Martha McCoy" <[email protected]>; "Ned Crosby" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Conversation Cafes and the 2004 Election > Dear Vicki, > > What a vision! At the risk of seeming totally predictable, I have to > say it just kicks me into bigger vision! > > Lately I've been coming to the conclusion that the greatest potential > in public dialogue and participation efforts lies not in any practice > by itself ("Which is the best practice?"), but in synergies between > them when they are used together strategically ("What is the most > powerful role for this practice, and how might its impact be > magnified by coordinated use with certain other practices?"). > Several months ago, in an effort to frame and advance this inquiry, I > wrote several papers about "Designing Multi-Process Public > Participation Programs" > http://www.co-intelligence.org/DD-MultiProcessPgms.html > > So as I read your proposal, I found myself drawn to modifying and > expanding the collaboration section. In the case of groups that are > not process-specific (e.g., IONS and PFN), I would engage them as you > propose, to focalize the dialogues in target cities. But in the case > of groups that ARE process-specific (in your list, The World Cafe, > the Commons Cafe and IAF), I would engage them to do what they > already do, but in a coordinated way in concert with your CC/2004 > activities. > > My own pet vision of an experiment of this sort would include: > a) Conversation Cafes (CC) > b) World Cafes (TWC) > c) Open Spaces (OST) > d) Study Circles > e) Citizens Juries or Consensus Conferences (CJ) > > Conversation Cafes would provide the ongoing hum of conversation in > the city, freely open to anyone, requiring little commitment. More > intense, sustained inquiries could be pursued in World Cafes, Open > Spaces and Study Circles. Really juicy TWC and OST events might last > up to 3 days, although TWC could be used in some 2-4 hour events as > well. Study Circles would go on over 4-8 weeks, 1-2 nights a week, > with dozens of them woven into a program including several hundred > people from community groups. Study Circles have the same grassroots > hosts and homey quality that CC's do, but involve a coherent group > more intensively over a period of time. OST and, to a greater > extent, Study Circle programs tend to produce action outcomes by > participants, providing a stimulus and outlet for action that the CCs > specifically (and correctly, for their purpose) discourage. OST is a > great place for sharing (marketting) detailed perspectives and > proposals, which again is (appropriately) discouraged in the CC > context. TWCs can be used alongside OST, CCs and/or Study Circles to > allow otherwise disparate participants in these programs to access > each other's insights. Etc. This is just a taste of the kinds of > different functions filled by the diverse practices, and what they > have to contribute to each other and to a larger co-ordinated > multi-process public participation dialogue program. > > Finally, Citizens Juries or Consensus Conferences can provide the > full city with an archetypally powerful and media-visible citizen > conversation about issues being dealt with by the other dialogue > forums. A CJ's findings and recommendations provide ideal grist for > all the other dialogues (there being no other information available > on the subject that is quite like it, as far as reflecting a coherent > sense of the common good and the general interest, from a diverse > citizens' perspective). On the other hand, a community rich in the > other dialogues (CC, TWC, OST, etc.) produces engaged citizens whose > participation in a CJ is likely to elevate the quality of the CJ's > discourse. There is incredible potential synergy between the broadly > accessible types of conversation and the "microcosm conversations" of > Citizens' Juries. > > The whole program could be organized such that participants in CJs, > OSTs and Study Circles end up having a profound and co-ordinated > effect on elections and policy-making activities, demonstrating real > empowerment through dialogue (a reality that could then be talked > about in further CCs etc., building the momentum!). > > My vision would be an arrangement in which several cities would be chosen and > a) You or someone from the world of Conversation Cafes would > organize CCs there to make everyone in the city feel welcomed into > meaningful conversation about significant issues; > b) Juanita or someone else from the world of World Cafes would > organize WCs there to deepen the cities' inquiries and share > developing insights; > c) Peggy Holman or someone else from the world of Open Spaces would > organize Open Spaces there to help people translate their passions > into connection and action; > d) Staff from the Study Circles Resource Center would organize one > or more Study Circle programs to bring the cities' churches, temples, > schools, community organizations and other groups into the > conversation and action; and > e) Ned Crosby or old staff of the Jefferson Center would organize > one or more Citizens' Juries there to evaluate candidates, election > issues or the democracy itself, and provide informed insights and > public judgments to all the other conversations involved in the > program. > > (There are many other methods that could be integrated into such a > broad program for public dialogue. I think that practices like > community Listening Projects a la Fran Peavey and the Rural Southern > Voice for Peace; Mediated Dialogue a la Search for Common Ground; and > various multiple viewpoint drama activities like Anna Deveare Smith's > work, Theatre of the Oppressed, and Playback Theatre could all > provide remarkable stimulus to such a program. As you know, this > list barely scratches the iceberg -- but it may give you an idea of > what fun you could have designing something like this...:-) > > In addition to the staff and activities listed above and in your > proposal, this vision would also include > f) someone (perhaps associated with the National Coalition for > Dialogue and Deliberation) to coordinate it all, and to convene the > ongoing conversations among the practitioners/organizers in (a)-(e), > through which such an integrated effort could unfold; > g) researchers to explore the synergies, the organizing methods, and > the impacts on the participants, decision-makers and the community as > a whole; and > h) videographers and journalists/authors recording it for current > news and subsequent research and publicity. > > Much of the same brilliant activities you used to bring CCs to > Seattle could be applied to this integrated program as well. I > believe it is out of such efforts that a true culture of dialogue > would be able to grow, because such a culture is so much bigger than > any of us, so much bigger than any one practice. Finally, doing > multi-process programs allows for diverse dialogue organizers to > present a united face to the public, and to point out the power that > is available to the citizenry through smart use of these processes, > so that the citizens will DEMAND more dialogue and deliberation in > all aspects of their community life. This reaches beyond the > election to transform the internal and external life of democracy, > itself. > > Anyway, that's where your thinking and visioning took my thinking and > visioning. > > And here are a few comments on your proposal, made from within the > paradigm you started with!! > > 1) Paragraph four seems to end mid-sentence: "Two part-time employees...." > > 2) Re Launch Questons: > > You write: "Some say America is the place where anyone can get rich. > Others say American is the place where anyone can become President. > Which of these statements seem more true to you and why?" I felt an > URGE to expand the options here -- especially since I want neither to > become rich nor President! Perhaps inserting something like the > following: "Still others say the America is a place where people can > fulfill their potential or make a difference or pursue happiness or > be free." > > There is nothing in these questions about foreign policy, war and > peace, global impact. I realized this when I read the otherwise > excellent question "What is your essential definition of America... > it's a place where....?" My partisan gut sense about America is that > it is a potentially catastrophic wild card in the world and has > systematiclly undermined the survival or emergence of life-affirming > cultures everywhere. I think a lot of other things about America, > but that is my first gut-level response because of my rearing and > life experience. And I couldn't give that response within the > framework of the question. (I want to make clear, in saying all > this, that I'm not promoting my particular perspective of America. > I'm just offering it as what many progressives feel about America, a > strong feeling which is marginalized by the way that question is > phrased.) You could expand that question to say (for example) "What > is your essential definition of America... it's a place where.... a > force for.... a country that....?" And I'd suggest a whole cluster > of questions explicitly around foreign policy: "What actions in the > world would (or do) make you feel really strongly -- either proud or > not -- about being an American? What are some of the best things > America could do in the world? Does America have some kind of > destiny in the world? What is it?" > > I suspect questions should be specifically solicited from activists > and from reviewing candidates' websites regarding what issues they > are addressing (which, of course, would have to be translated into > good questions, deepening questions, for the purposes of the CCs). > Here are some I can imagine using: > > What would make a real difference in this country? Why? How would > you like to see the country changed over the next four years? Why is > that important to you? > What do you feel is involved in being a citizen? What helps > citizenship? What makes it hard? > What role should leaders play in a democracy? How much of a > leadership role should citizens play? What would (or does) that look > like? > If democracy means governing the country according to the will of the > people, how should we find out what the will of the people is? Does > that seem like enough to you? What would make our country more of a > democracy? > > 3) Re "A concerted effort to attract diverse points of view." The > first step of that often involves talking to the kinds of people you > want to attract and find out what kind of conversations THEY would > find meaningful, and how they react to the CC's design and > guidelines. As generative as that design and those guidelines may > seem to us, their very lack of control may be part of the thing that > keeps certain people (like Bush supporters) from attending. Walking > into a conservative political campaign office and asking some folks > "What's wrong with our design for this public conversation program?" > (a la Dr. Karl Henrik Robert's initial process and some RSVP > Listening Projects) might produce some interesting insights. Or ask > one of them to watch a CC from another table and, at the end of the > night, tell you whether they felt welcomed or not, and why. > > Thems m'thoughts, m'buddy. I hope they're useful somehow. > > Coheartedly, > Tom > > > At 11:02 AM -0800 10/29/2003, Vicki Robin wrote: > >MaizeDear friends, > >Some of you have already heard from me about this idea, some were suggested > >as potential partners, some I just think would be interested. This proposal > >was inspired by an "innocent" question from Mark Ritchie, "What are your > >ideas for plugging the cafes into the 2004 elections??" First thought, > >"Nothing." Second thought, "Gasp! This is what the Conversation Cafes were > >designed for. This is their destiny in this moment." Third thought, "I have > >no time... I have no time." Fourth thought, well, here's the attachment > >explaining CC/2004 Election Initiative. Keep in mind that it's a first > >draft - only conceived after Mark's 10/26 email. > > > >Please give this careful consideration, and share it widely among people you > >know for whom this would be their perfect form of participating in changing > >the dialogue and the dynamics in our democracy in this election year. The > >Conversation Cafes were built in response to the need after 911 for grass > >roots social healing and meaning making. They can help us move through what > >promises to be an exciting yet wrenching year leading up to the 2004 > >Presidential election - and understand together what happened after the dust > >settles and the winner is s/elected. > > > >We need $100,000 by December 1 to feel confident in beginning - and to > >quickly build the team and minimal infrastructure that will support this > >getting going by February 2004. We need partner organizations with large > >networks of people who have interest in and some basic capacity for > >reflective listening and inquiry - and a yearning to make a difference in > >this election. We need volunteer coordinators in at least a dozen cities > >who can build local teams to hold host trainings and monitor the local > >Conversation Cafes. We need your critical eye on what we need to do > >differently, or not at all. We need all the heart and wisdom you might be > >able to mobilize - in yourselves or in people you know. > > > >Let me know. I leave the country on November 5, but i NEVER leave email > >:-) - and some of the Seattle Advisory Board for the Conversation Cafes can > >help moving this forward while I am away. Until November 2 midnight, I'm > >here at the number below. > >Blessings, > >Vicki > >PS - I took the liberty of NOT bcc'ing this email as most of you know and > >respect one another already. > > > >______________________ > >Vicki Robin > >New Road Map Foundation > >P.O. Box 15981 > >Seattle, WA 98115 > >(206) 527-0437 > >www.newroadmap.org > >www.yourmoneyoryourlife.org > >www.conversationcafe.org > >www.kucinich.us (for US President) > >www.simplicityforum.org > > > >"Don't ask yourself what the world needs - ask yourself what makes you come > >alive, > >and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come > >alive." > > -- Harold Thurman Whitman > > > > Conversation CC/2004 Election Initiative > A project of the Conversation CafÈ Initiative of the New Road Map Foundation > > Imagine 10,000 Americans of every persuasion gathering in CafÈs > across the country weekly during 2004 for deep, respectful and > inquisitive conversations about what we see as the state of the > Union, and what we are doing to preserve and revitalize our democracy > in this election year. Imagine dialogue, not debate. Imagine > curiosity, not argument. Imagine critical thinking, not simply > airing opinions that never change. Imagine hope. Imagine ... a real > democracy. > > Conversation CafÈ/2004 Election Initiative will bring this spirit of > open civic engagement to the nation. Modeled on the strategic and > successful launch of Conversation CafÈs in Seattle after 911, the > Conversation CafÈ Initiative intends to create and monitor weekly > hosted conversations in at least a dozen major cities, beginning in > February 2004 and continuing through the entire election cycle > through the Inauguration 2005. Beyond that moment, many of the CCs > will surely continue, but not necessarily focused on making meaning > during the intense political atmosphere of a Presidential election > year. > > Conversation CafÈs are drop-in, hosted dialogues in public spaces. > Our purpose is to promote community, democracy and wisdom world-wide > through generating millions of face-to-face, public conversations > held in a respectful, inclusive and inquisitive spirit. Conversation > CafÈs arose to allow strangers in public places to shift from small > talk to big talk. Conversation is democracy in action and an antidote > to loneliness and social isolation. Who attends? Diverse people -- > young, old, men, women, gay, straight, extraverts and introverts. We > also attract some racial and cultural and political diversity (though > not enough!). What's possible? Changing the culture of fear to a > culture of connection, changing the assumption that only some people > are worthwhile and wise to an assumption that every human being is a > source of insight and possibly friendship. > > Started in Seattle with 3 experimental locations in the Summer of > 2001, there are now 70 Conversation CafÈs internationally. About 400 > hosts have been trained, and teams of hosts have held conversations > at major events like The San Francisco and Austin Green Festivals, > The Institute of Noetic Sciences 2003 conference, the Bioneers and at > large-scale focused community inquiries on current events attracting > hundreds of participants. The Readers' Digest, The Seattle Times, The > New York Times and Utne Reader have featured articles on the > Conversation CafÈs as well as a radio interview on Talk of the Nation > and a television story on the local NBC affiliate. A 10-person > volunteer Advisory Council has stewarded the growth of the > Conversation CafÈ Initiative with an eye to maximum empowerment of > local hosts along with lucid purposes, principles and practices > embodied in a Charter. Two part-time employees > > The key elements that allow Conversation CafÈs to promote > surprisingly deep, intelligent dialogue among strangers in public > places are: > A host -- a warm welcoming human who introduces the process and > agreements, and keeps the process moving and on time. > A public place where all are welcome to participate -- CCs can happen > in homes, schools and businesses, but the core of the CC/2004 > Election initiative will be CafÈs, bookstores and other public > places to attract the maximum spontaneous diversity > A clear set of agreements, read aloud at the beginning > > Suspend judgment as best you can. > Listen... with respect > Seek to understand, not persuade. > Invite and honor diversity of opinion > Speak what has personal heart and meaning > Go for honesty and depth but don't go on and on. > > A clear process that permits even novices to successfully host > The host welcomes you, sets the theme for discussion, reviews the > process and agreements, sets an ending time, and calls for a moment > of silence to relax, reflect, and become open. > Round one: Passing around the 'talking object' (something symbolic or > just handy that is held by the person speaking), each person speaks > briefly to the topic. It's okay to pass. No feedback or response. > Round two: Again with talking object, each person briefly deepens > their own comments or speaks to another's remarks. > Open, spirited conversation: Use the talking object only if there is > domination, contention, or lack of focus. This will take up most of > the time. Keep in mind the agreements. > Final Round: Each person says briefly what was meaningful to him or her. > A fixed time -- usually 90 minutes > A non-instrumental space -- 'no committees will be formed', 'no > marketing', no cost (except a cup of coffee or tea). > A regular meeting time -- usually weekly, sometimes bi-weekly or monthly > A fun, informative website with all the materials for hosting a cafÈ > available to download for free. http://www.conversationcafe.org > > See the Conversation CafÈ manual which describes these functions in > more detail. http://www.conversationcafe.org/docs/HostManual.doc > > To launch the Conversation CafÈs, the Seattle team, led by Vicki > Robin, used the following plan (see history details at: > http://www.commonground.ca/iss/0309146/conversation_intro.shtml) > A launch event, the Power of Conversation to Change the World, > attended by hundreds of people. > A website with all the Conversation CafÈs listed -- and great > articles, quotations and information about dialogue as a path to > social change. > A clear, short, simple manual on the web for hosting Conversation > CafÈs that allows even novice hosts to succeed. > A private host listserve so that the hosts could become a learning community. > Celebrities, attending in the spirit of citizenship, not expertise, > at every CC during Conversation Week, and prominent listing of these > on all literature. > Powerful questions that ask each person to ponder their own > relationships with the times we are living through, questions that > embody the thinking, feeling and doing realms. > Co-sponsoring organizations that agreed to provide several people as > hosts and promote the Conversation CafÈs through emails, newsletters, > and websites -- all 'in exchange for' being listed on all materials > as partners. The intention was to be a 'rising tide' of dialogue > that would allow all such initiatives to flourish. > Aggressive outreach to the media > Postering and leafleting at events where people concerned about 911 gathered. > Entertaining 'Burma-shave' type short emails sent to many hundreds of > people weekly, recounting the building excitement of this unfolding > social creation. > A sense of meaning for everyone involved -- Conversation CafÈs were > seen as essential activism in the post-911 period. > Inviting, intelligent, populist language and graphics > Non-partisan spirit. A concerted effort to attract diverse points of view. > A passionate 'sugar-mommy' who drove the process and could afford to > pay for a staff person, print material and the like. As the events > happened in CafÈs, there was no facility cost. Co-sponsors provided > meeting rooms for host trainings. Volunteers and staff worked from > their homes, using their own phones, email and fax. Most > communications were via email. > > The Election 2004 Conversation CafÈ Initiative would use a similar > model, with a minimal need for $100,000 to launch and maintain the > process. Following is a preliminary plan for how the Initiative > would work. > > Hire a coordinator who then assembles necessary staff members, a team > of volunteers and possibly several interns to manage the process. > Identify a core group in every target city who can oversee the > year-long process in their locale. Draw from the memberships of the > partner organizations for this. > Train 50 hosts in every target city, each of whom makes a commitment > to host at one Conversation CafÈ location for at least one month. > Assuming 3 ongoing weekly Conversation CafÈs per city and assuming a > need for 'emergency' back-up hosts, 50 is a minimum number. Existing > Conversation CafÈ host trainers can do this. Hosts are also trained > on how to do media outreach about their CafÈs and places to promote > their CafÈs. > Write a powerful context statement for the year-long inquiry into > democracy in America and how citizens can make a difference in this > election year. Develop launch questions (following are some broad > areas of interest in 2004 -- a simple question that gets at each one > would be developed): > * Freedom and security -- Americans value both. How do you resolve > these needs in your own life? Where would you set the boundaries on > freedom to achieve security? What might make Americans more secure? > How is our government responsible for freedom? > * Some say America is the place where anyone can get rich. Others > say American is the place where anyone can become President. Which > of these statements seem more true to you and why? What is your > essential definition of America... it's a place where...? How is our > government responsible for creating opportunities for everyone? > * How does America seem more or less fair than when you were growing > up? Are there more or less opportunities? For whom? How is our > government responsible for fairness? > Establish relationships with at least 12 co-sponsoring organizations > that would likely have some, if not all, of the following > characteristics: > * social engagement with the larger issues of our times > * commitment to dialogue and inquiry > * large, well connected networks > * enthusiasm for and sense of ownership of the project -- proud to be > part of it > Potential partners: Institute of Noetic Sciences, The World CafÈ, the > Commons CafÈ, National Center for Dialogue and Deliberation, National > Coaches Networks (including Dave Ellis' networks), Industrial Areas > Foundation, Positive Futures Network > Offer and request the following from the co-sponsors: > * they provide at least 5 hosts/city, willing to be trained and to > participate fully > * they are featured sponsor for a month, writing the context > statement and surfacing the 3 questions that will launch the > conversations in the communities. Their initiative is highlighted on > the CC/2004 Election website > * They promote the CC/2004 Election initiative through their > networks, newsletters and websites. > * They designate a media spokesperson who can make the link between > their mission and the CC/2004 Election initiative, and share their > media contacts for monthly press releases > A CC/2004 Election website is launched, based on the CC website > model, including calendar and a specific CC/2004 Election Host > manual. > Civic leaders and local celebrities are engaged to attend CCs in the > community during the year. National leaders are involved in some > higher profile way -- perhaps a congressperson from every state > participates in a national launch event (this would require at least > triple the funding). > Develop graphic materials: flyers, posters, table signs that hosts > can use in their locales -- and post on website > Develop a host listserve where hosts are free to problem solve, > celebrate, complain, ask for help. > Develop a tracking device for the whole year so we get ongoing > feedback and can learn over time what works and how to make the > CC/2004 Election Initiative even more powerful and successful > > Approximate Budget (Minimal needs) > Coordinator: 30 hours/week for 3 months, 20 hours/week for 9 months > $30,000.00 > Support services: 220 hours @ $25/hour, 100 hours @ $15/hour > $7,000.00 > Communications Director > $20,000.00 > Interns: > $2,000.00 > Consultants: > $3,000.00 > Travel: > $5,000.00 > Web design and maintenance > $8,000.00 > Design and Printing of materials > $15,000.00 > Grant administration > $5,000.00 > Misc/contingency > $5,000.00 > > TOTAL > $100,000.00 > > > We are seeking financial partners who can swiftly join us in > launching the CC/2004 Election Initiative. We are open to a single > donor, a donor who can offer part of the needed funds, and is willing > to fundraise for the rest, or a Foundation. Funds should be in place > no later than December 1, 2003 in order to launch in February. If > donations exceed $100,000, both quantity of staff time and quality of > materials can be increased. Even more would allow greater support > services for the approximately 150 hosts serving nationally. If we > write a report at the end of the year, another $10,000 would allow us > to pay a writer and print 1,000 copies for distribution. However, if > only $100,000 is available, the Conversation CafÈ Initiative has a > proven track record of maximizing impact per every penny spent. > > The CC/2004 Election Initiative is a project of the Conversation > CafÈ Initiative, which is a project of the New Road Map Foundation > http://www.newroadmap.org, a 501c3 non-profit Foundation. Checks > should be made payable to NRM/CC2004 and sent to: > New Road Map Foundation > P.O. Box 15981 > Seattle, WA 98115 > > > Biography of Vicki Robin > Co-founder, Conversation CafÈs > President, New Road Map Foundation > > Vicki Robin is the coauthor with Joe Dominguez of the international > best-seller, Your Money or Your Life: Transforming Your Relationship > With Money and Achieving Financial Independence (Viking Penguin, > 1992), available now in nine languages. Vicki is President of the > Seattle-based New Road Map Foundation, an educational foundation > teaching people tools for sustainable living. > > Vicki has appeared on hundreds of radio and television shows, > including "The Oprah Winfrey Show," "Good Morning America" and > National Public Radio's "Weekend Edition" and "Morning Edition"; she > has also been featured in People magazine, The Wall Street Journal, > Mirabella, Woman's Day, Newsweek, Utne Reader and the New York Times. > > Inspired by years of experience in communication and dialogue skills > -- and by the challenge to democracy, ecological sustainability and > social justice represented by the 9/11 crisis -- Vicki co-created and > took responsibility for spreading Conversation CafÈs throughout > Seattle -- and the world. Conversation CafÈs are hosted conversations > among diverse people in public places on subjects that matter. > Stories have appeared in The New York Times, The Seattle Times and > The Utne Reader and CafÈs have spread to 7 cities in North America, > with a dozen more in the works. > > Vicki served on the President's Council on Sustainable Development's > Task Force on Population and Consumption. She is a founding Board > member of the Center for the New American Dream, a national > organization with the goal of changing the pattern and overall > quantity of consumption in the United States - without sacrificing > quality of life. She is also the Chair of the Simplicity Forum, an > association of academics, activists, artists, entrepreneurs and > authors who are leaders of the Simplicity movement. > > She has received awards from Co-op America and from Sustainable > Northwest for her pioneering work on sustainable living. A&E > Entertainment's show "Biography" recently honored Vicki as one of ten > exceptional citizens in Seattle. > > > ________________________________ > > Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * PO Box 493 * Eugene, OR 97440 > http://www.co-intelligence.org * http://www.democracyinnovations.org > Read THE TAO OF DEMOCRACY * http://www.taoofdemocracy.com > Please support our work. * Your donations are fully tax-deductible. > > ________________________________ > > > > > **************************** > FAIR USE NOTICE > > This message may contain copyrighted material the use of which has > not specifically been authorized by the copyright owner. In > accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is > distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior > interest in receiving this for research and educational purposes. > For more information on fair use, please go to: > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml If you wish to use > copyrighted material for purposes of your own which go beyond "fair > use," we suggest that you obtain permission from the copyright owner. > * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected], Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
