This conversation is most interesting and engaging! I'm reading Robert
W Fuller's book, "Somebodies and Nobodies," which is about rankism and
the abuse that people in power often feel entitled to perpetrate on
"nobodies.". He, too, states that hierarchy serves a purpose and is not
intrinsically wrong or evil.

Best to all --BJ
On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 08:43 AM, chris macrae wrote:

Michael wrote
I find it productive to look at "hierarchy" as a "given" in all
systems and organizations without the popular stigma attached to the
term (I looked it up in the Unabridged and there it is almost
exclusively documented with that negative stigma attached). What
would a system or organization look like in which hierarchy is

Chris writes:
I would like to raise the question differently : what makes hierarchy
useful in an organisation as people system and what makes it
destructive
of human relationships. For example too much hierarchy makes people
afraid to pass bad news up the organisation, and thence the
organisation
fails to learn even as the environment changes

Hierarchy is productive when it includes and practices ideas such as:
Pervasive fairness is led around here

Someone does need to be charged with ultimately making biggest
decisions
of each type but we know who that is for each type and explanations are
made as to how decisions were reached

The top should not confuse its authority to make particular decisions
with bossing people in personal relationships

'Need to know' should only be exercised for proven special reasons and
then
limited time periods. Hierarchy must ensure transparency both
internally
and across boundaries of organisations on eg safety and other critical
responsibility issues

Measurements should always be questioned for their assumptions

Unfortunately, because hierarchy/power of big often compounds over time
in very different manners than this, it is if I recall Harrison's
c-language correctly the primary cause of Confusion- trying to rule
over
Conflict-situation and change forces where the very idea that one side
can rule without others have equal rights to participate is one of the
biggest hidden agendas in any true reconciliation process.

Usually the Primacy of Open Space is to take hierarchy completely out
of
the equation while it holds the space for people to respect each other
as people, and see what sprit and innovation that brings to the circle

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