Harrison and all your posting was -due to server problems - the only one I could just open here. It reaches me partizipating at a retreat at Isla de Margarita/Venezuela with Rinpoche Namkhai Norbu. Nice coincidence. Instead of opening space here, I am actually building a compost pile for the community.
All the best to all of you Bernd Weber As usual OSLIST and it's denizens seems to be going where angels fear to > tread. Some may feel that we are wandering off into the realm of idle > philosophical speculation, and I guess that is true to a point. I also > think > that this present discussion lies at the heart of what we do/don't do in > Open Space. > > Funda said, "is evolution possible without consciousness??" And I might > ask -- are we talking about the evolution of consciousness? Or the > consciousness of evolution? Or both? And not too far down the road we come > to one of the great divides in World Thinking. There are those, largely in > the "Scientific" West who prefer to think that matter is primary, and that > over time it manifests consciousness (becomes conscious). Roughly put, we > all start out as bodies (matter), then develop mental capacities, and > finally (for most of us) evolve the capacity to be conscious of our selves > as thinking bodies -- and then maybe even become conscious of our > consciousness. Much of the rest of the world looks at the same data > (progression) and comes to a radically different conclusion. Their story > is > that Consciousness is primary and that over time It appears (manifests) > in > progressively more complex and elegant expressions. From where I sit, this > is truly a case of "pay your money and take your choice." I can't imagine > how you would "prove" either one, and we actually have a case of a priori > assumptions. And the real issue is which story makes the most sense and is > most functional in terms of what you (whoever you are) want to do. The > Western Story is and has been a powerful one, forming the basis of the > Western Scientific enterprise. And obviously that enterprise has been > rewarding, albeit with certain limitations (We have created an industrial > society which is about ready to pollute us to death). With this story we > find ourselves confronting such wonderful questions as the "Biological > (molecular) basis of Consciousness." The alternate story -- that > Consciousness is primary -- takes one to rather different places. > Consciousness > IS -- and over time becomes manifest in quarks, atoms, molecules, > quasars -- and you and me. According to this story, when we perceive > ourselves > as conscious (or Consciousness) we are not doing/creating anything new -- > we > are simply recognizing our selves as we have always been and truly are. > The > Buddhists would say -- We see our original face. And the journey of life > and > evolution is the journey to (the recognition of) our authentic selves. > Some > of us move more quickly down this road and we call them mystics or saints. > Most of the rest of us take our own sweet time. Anyhow . . . > > What on earth does this have to do with Open Space, the application of > Open > Space, our role in Open Space, the place and relationship of Open Space to > current organizations????? > > The answer(s), I think, begins with yet another question. What happens > when > space opens? Is it the case that we are doing something novel and strange > -- > or rather that we have created some appropriate conditions such that what > was already present becomes visable. In short we are not "learning > something > new" but rather remembering what we already knew -- but forgot? > Personally, > I find the "remembering" story to be the most compelling, or how else to > explain the common experience of working with a group of folks who have > had > no training in esoteric skills, conflict resolution, group process -- and > yet in basically 15 minites flat most are behaving as if being in Open > Space > was the most natural thing in the world? Maybe it is? They just remember > what they had forgotten. Rather like riding a bicycle -- once you have > done > it you can never really forget. > > Our role in this situation becomes rather clear, and our anxiety level > should go down. There is little to teach and less to worry about. The > folks > are already there, they only have to be reminded. Gently. > > And do you have to be a Buddhist? Probably not, but it could help. > > Harrison > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Funda Oral" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:39 AM > Subject: conscious of evolution as it evolves. ??? > > > > is evolution possible without consciousness?? > > > > Funda > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Therese Fitzpatrick" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:22 PM > > Subject: Re: conscious of evolution as it evolves. . . > > > > > > > I think some people are conscious of evolution as it evolves and some > of > > > those people tell others what they perceive. For the rest of us, > > sometimes > > > we believe and integrate what the people who are conscious of > evolution > > > share and sometimes we don't. All people are not all at the some > > > evolutionary level and knowing who is where is a guessing game for > some > > and > > > for others . . . for others, they have clearer knowing. > > > > > > In some cultures, people with a present, conscious awareness of > evolution > > > were called soothsayers. Sometimes they are artists. Philosophers. > > > > > > I believe practicing open space is a very fine tool for any person, > > > regardless of their level of awareness of conscious evolution, to > develop > > > the ability to BE aware of conscious evolution. > > > > > > I believe humanity is undergoing a big shift in consciousness and more > and > > > more people are aware of the shift. . . we hear it creaking and > cracking > > > like the ice breaking up in anticipation of spring. I hear it often > in > > open > > > space. > > > > > > > > > >From: Artur Silva <[email protected]> > > > >Reply-To: OSLIST <[email protected]> > > > >To: [email protected] > > > >Subject: Re: Is there a need to hold space for people to ask the > > > question, "what' > > > >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:02:09 -0700 > > > > > > > >Doug > > > > > > > >--- "Douglas D. Germann, Sr." > > > ><[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Artur-- > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your wonder! > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean by "Evolution... is never conscient > > > > > to the species that > > > > > follow ... it"? > > > > > > > > > > Teilhard seems to me to hold that evolution has > > > > > become conscious of itself > > > > > in humanity. We are therefore life reflecting on > > > > > itself. Do you agree? > > > > > > > >My reading of Theilhard de Chardin was many-many years > > > >ago and it was not very profound. So, speaking only > > > >for myself, I think that humanity is conscious of > > > >evolution as a fact of the past. I don't think it is > > > >conscious of it has it happens - or would be > > > >conscious if it happened... > > > > > > > >Artur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > > > >http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ > > > > > > > >* > > > >* > > > >========================================================== > > > >[email protected] > > > >------------------------------ > > > >To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > > >view the archives of [email protected]: > > > >http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > > > > >To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > > > >http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from > McAfee® > > > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > > > * > > > * > > > ========================================================== > > > [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > > view the archives of [email protected]: > > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > > > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > > > > > * > > * > > ========================================================== > > [email protected] > > ------------------------------ > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > view the archives of [email protected]: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > -- ---------------------------------- Bernd Weber C.P.1462 Rua Francisco de Almeida 208 Ponta Gêa, Beira, Sofala, MOZAMBIQUE Gumpendorfer Straße 88b/18 AT-1060 Wien, AUSTRIA Mozambique: fon +258 3 329859 Austria: fon & fax +431 596 86 57 Email:<[email protected]> for job related e-mails mailto:<[email protected]> Actually Isla de Margarita +++ GMX DSL-Tarife 3 Monate gratis* +++ Nur bis 25.7.2004 +++ Bis 24.000 MB oder 300 Freistunden inkl. http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
