i wanted to send it to the list ----- Original Message ----- From: "Funda Oral" <fundao...@ttnet.net.tr> To: "Raffi Aftandelian" <ra...@bk.ru> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 2:12 PM Subject: Re: an attempt at an answer
> Dear Raffi, > > I guess we (you and me) subscribed to the list at similar time. I also > have BA degree like you. First OSonOS for both of us was last year. > You are more experienced than me in OST but i think i also use OST in daily > life somehow. I think i am a little bit older than you and i usually > feel like i understand you. > > But i don't understand what is the problem here, now . What do you expect > from the > OSList and OS Community....How it should be according to you ? I also think > about that but i am not angry with anybody. > > Whatever has happened was the only thing that could have till now > > But now, maybe needs have changed, and we should discuss again but i > personally > don't wish the sungroups to be created for something that should interest > many people here. > > If it is not so, if not many people in the list are not willing, do not need > to discuss > somethings about OST Community (needs and opportunities etc). Then i guess > this is not the right time or right place. > > But tell me if you and me can cooperate doing an OST in Armenia? Maybe NGO's > can help us....next week i am going to a tour on the eastern borders of > Turkey, we > will visit Armenian border and Ruins of Ani ( do you know that place?) > > Anyway, let's see > > Funda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raffi Aftandelian" <ra...@bk.ru> > To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 10:12 AM > Subject: an attempt at an answer > > > > Hi all, > > > > Harrison, you lovingly/mockingly (I imagine) asked a few days back that > you were > > almost afraid to ask what I think the next paradigm might be. > > > > I am going to give this some more thinking before phrasing what I > > think the answer is. I have a sense as to what the next two paradigms > > on the learning curve (which as a model of course, has its limits) > > are. I also have the sense that once the 5th paradigm comes up, the > > 6th one will come up in 7 years after the 5th one. > > > > Nevertheless, it gives us a framework. But, maybe a better forum for > > this discussion would be Halifax. > > > > I can say what some of the ideas are that are flirting with me, what I > > think is pointing to the answer/question. I put it in slashes because > > I am not sure what the question is yet. > > > > Below are some as yet rough ideas that somehow I think may hint at the > > question/answer: > > > > 1. Yes, OST works very deeply, at the level of essence. But isn't > > there and hasn't there always been something beyond/before essence? > > What is beyond/before essence and does OST work with it? > > > > 2a. Consciously or unconsciously OST facilitators worldwide have chosen > > not to be a community in my opinion. What is the price we are paying? > > Can we who use a method that builds "community" (of course, the answer > > is still open, we still don't know what community is) and choose not > > to be a community? Unfortunately, I have not done my homework and have > > not combed through all the archives to understand what the learning is > > that the listserv has done here on that score. > > > > 2b. To my knowledge we haven't used OST as an approach for sorting out our > > internal issues/challenges as a "community" of facilitators. > > > > 3. OST works directly only, perhaps, with human consciousness. > > > > 4. A while back I believe on this listserv there was a mention of > > something called Beyond Budgeting. Might that also mean that there is > > something beyond accounting, the metaphor used in the User Guide? > > > > Probably, there is more to come. > > > > 5. It is hard to acknowledge that someone with only a BA, who has > > never done an OST meeting with a group larger than 50 people may > > indeed have something new to offer. > > > > 6. It's really hard to mirror the level of openness who spends much of > > his time wearing very few masks and to take seriously someone who > > seems to act like a little boy. > > > > I might be terribly wrong in all my thoughts. I don't really care > > because it's fun, it feels right, and I can live with being wrong. > > > > Since, for now, all we've got is open space, the only thing I know how > > to do is open more space. > > > > The original task of this listserv was a forum for people involved or > > interested in OST. > > > > So maybe this conversation is too big for this list. Quite frankly > > there have been times when the space hasn't been big enough for me, > > times when I have felt sadness and anger from replies from people > > offlist. And I know that I am not alone in having had this experience. > > For me creative process *maybe* I need a place where I don't have to > > censor what I have to say. > > > > While I have never received any hateful emails from people on the > > listserv, I know of one person who has. And all of those feelings, of > > course, are fine. Whatever happens... > > > > I continue to very much enjoy the list and have trouble imagining that > > I'll leave it. > > > > That said, I am creating an electronic group which I hope will maybe > > make a contribution to the conversation(s) I am hoping to have. My hope > > is that the space on that group will be bigger than what we have here > > right now. And the invitation to participating in it is wide open. And > > the invitation to helping me think through what the list will do, what > > it should do, its "given", its purpose is also wide upon. > > > > The group's name is "a breathing circle." For now, I see its place as > > www.smartgroups. I see the group as a forum > > to discuss anything this is important, important to others, important > > to oneself. The only given I can think of right now is that none of the > > messages will ever be deleted, openly accessible archive, just like > > here. People can choose to write in any language they want to. > > > > I am also creating a companion group called "a breathing marketplace." > > I have a less clear idea of what this group needs to be, but maybe it > > could be framed as a post-e-bay/post-amazon.com/post-online trading > > post forum for any kind of trading. Basically, if you have anything to > > buy or sell, this would be the place. It could be something small, it > > could be something big. And again for me it's an open space with the > > same given(s?) as "a breathing circle." Any ideas on breathing > > marketplace would also be welcome. > > > > Thank you, > > Raffi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:ra...@bk.ru > > > > * > > * > > ========================================================== > > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > ------------------------------ > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
