Pat Wrote: "To refer back to Harrison's statement I don't think you can
enable it or sustain it. I think all of creation is the an expression of
it."
No question in my mind Pat, we do not "create self-organization." It is.
But
I really do believe that we can learn to use it, to optimize it, and to
sustain it. More to the point, I think that is precisely what we all have
been learning to do for 20 years with OST. I presume you would have no
problem in talking about "Optimizing and sustaining life." And mutates
mutandis -- the same applies to self-organization, which after all is what
life is all about, at least a fundamental level.
For sure we know how to screw it up (which also teaches us what NOT to
do).
Terminal screw up occurs every time we attempt to organize a
self-organizing
system -- or control it, which amounts to the same thing.
And I think we have been learning a lot about how to make it (SO,Life,Open
Space) sing. It starts with Invitation, comes to a circle, includes
passion
and responsibility etc. Or something.
Harrison
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen
Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website www.ho-image.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat
Black
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: doing self-organization
Michael et al
First of all thank you for this discussion. You can't have self
organization without open space and probably you can't have open space
with out self organization. But I love the rolling around of thoughts
in these regards. I love the mystery of creation that is revealed.
I come at self organization from a biological science perspective. In
creation self organization does enable high performance, sustaining
life and evolution or leading change in organization as you put. Some
would say that without selforganization there would be no life. Self
organization is not an outward event. It is not an abstracted event.
It is action in response to experience and the identity transforming
that occurs because of this relationship between self and the
environment self occurs in. It does in its essence make life
possible. In looking at the organization of a cell and what is
possible, self organization facilitates the association and
configurationof lipids and proteins that allow the passage of certain
materials into the cell. In the case of the living each action the
living entity takes changes the environment that the entity is in.
This would create a toxic environement for living to be sustained if
not for this dynamic relationship between self and environement. This
is what self organization is. It is a presence to be in the place
where it is. It is a presence that allows transformation in a
transforming environment. It is a presence that recognizes
possibility and enters into relationship with it. Varela would call
it the mindfulness found in Buddhist tradition and the the fundamental
cognition. Self organization is what makes even a molecule possible
and everything else in creation possible. For me it is like a fractal
that is fundamental to everything and defines creation and is
integrated into all that is created.
To refer back to Harrison's statement I don't think you can enable it
or sustain it. I think all of creation is the an expression of it.
So for me it is more how to remain the most synchronized with it and
therefore with myself. Individual entities can I suppose intefere
with the process or presence but not without causing their own death.
Even if one eliminates their own self organizing abilities and cause
their death, their physical form will be included in the possibility
of something else in creation. Like I said I just don't think that
anything can be separated from it because we are it even in our own
deaths.
I guess what I hear when you say that you like to enable high
preformance, sustain life in neighborhood communities, leading change
in organizations, or other purposes is that you like to work at the
macro level. In reading your posts and some of your writings I
speculate that in your work with groups of people that you try to be
present for the group in a capacity that facilitates creation,
identity, transformation, possibility. I am thinking that if my
specualtion about you is correct you name what you do a little
deferently. From where I view it, I would name it an expression of
self organization.
I am totally a believer that is certain from this post and part of
what I love about the topic is the implications it has. If this is
true and self organization is fundamental to creation and us as part
of creation what implications does it have for how we view actions in
the world like violence lest say? What implications are there for how
we work in community if any? Self organization is on some level the
seed for intelligence. It has helped me view the workings of the
world as intelligent in that they all lead down a path. This view
helps me to descripe the path and do specualte where it might lead. I
am wondering where that kind of wondering will lead?
Love to be present for this conversation.
pat black
On 5/24/07, Michael Herman <[email protected]> wrote:
and harrison... looking back at your language about essentials, "the
process of self organization
can be enabled and sustained by paying careful attention to eight
critical"
...it occurs to me that i'm not much interested in "the process of
self-organization... enabling it... or sustaining it. more interested
in enabling high performance, sustaining life in neighborhood
communities, leading change in organization, or other purposes... but
no doubt this issue is only popping up because this bit you've posted
is taken out of context, so it's lost the links to these and all the
other "good" things that we would ever want to invite. i imagine that
high performance and the rest are already wrapped up inside of what
you mean when you say 'self-organization' above.
m
On 5/24/07, Michael Herman <[email protected]> wrote:
> hi doug,
>
> seems to me that your first question assumes halfway state. "if there
> is such a thing as self-org" then leaves open the question of whether
> or not there is anything else. once we notice that it is, AND is
> everywhere, then the need for knowing or creating the conditions seems
> to dissolve, maybe into harrison's beer. we need to know more,
> perhaps, if we want to make a better beer, but probably not about the
> "conditions" for refrigeration, but about refrigeration as the
> condition for beer. so the conditions that matter are the conditions
> for high performance or productive work. and when we ask that, i
> think we can quickly dissolve most of what people say into what
> happens in our principles and law and circle and invitation and...
>
> inviting, like marshall rosenberg's 'non-violent communication,
> emphasizes choice. invitation is request for attention, not demand.
> even in writing an invitation with a leader/sponsor, i'm not ever
> trying to make the invitation go a certain way, but i do invite
> attention (theirs) to focus on various bits of what i'm
> hearing/sensing in them and their situation, exploring the 'rightness"
> of these bits to see what dimensions of everything they'd like to
> invite others to focus on with them.
>
> my two cents.
>
> m
>
>
>
> On 5/24/07, douglas germann <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Michael, Harrison, Joelle, Andrew, Pat, Raffi, and all--
> >
> > (Sorry for the previous posting--somehow hit the send key before I
> > was
done.)
> >
> > Would you be interested in entertaining a couple of musing questions?
> >
> > If (some people in command and control mode might still use the word
> > "if") there is such a thing as self organizing, what would be its
> > conditions?
> >
> > This seems to be to be a fruitful inquiry, and it goes beyond
> > our usual important, complex, diverse, conflict, immediacy
list.
> > For me it perhaps overlaps but is not precisely the same as
> > Harrison's list of 8 essentials.
> >
> > For instance, is invitation necessary for self
> > organizing? What level of freedom? What order of
> > equality of the participants? Are there physical
> > conditions? Or is it just two or more gathering?
> >
> > Closely related: What is the difference between trying to control
> > what
a
> > group does and inviting? (Harrison, you hinted at this in a post
> > today
> > when you say "I believe that there is an infinitely better
> > possibility
> > through which we may discover deep ways to realize our full potential
as
> > human beings, as well as doing something very useful and good in the
> > world.") Is it simply a matter of degree, or is the difference
> > qualitative?
> >
> > For instance, when Birgitt writes of "givens," or I
help
> > someone write the theme for their invitation, we are
> > consciously directing the attention of the
participants
> > to something we want to examine or change. So for
> > instance, we are inviting people to make positive
change
> > in the area of X, or to explore the issues and
> > opportunities of X, and this necessarily takes their
> > attention off Y, Z, Q and J.
> >
> > :- Doug.
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > [email protected]
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of [email protected]:
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> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
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> >
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> 300 West North Ave #1105
> Chicago IL 60610 USA
>
> phone: 312-280-7838
> email: [email protected]
> skype: globalchicago
>
> http://www.michaelherman.com
> http://www.openspaceworld.org
> http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
>
--
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
300 West North Ave #1105
Chicago IL 60610 USA
phone: 312-280-7838
email: [email protected]
skype: globalchicago
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.openspaceworld.org
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
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