Re: A Common Consensus

[Phelim McDermott]

Like the question mark that was wanting to appear at the end of my  
last paragraph.

?



On 16 Aug 2008, at 18:50, Phelim McDermott wrote:

Hi There,

This may be a tangent but the thought is there. This makes me think  
of a very good exercise which i did with Keith Johnstone as an  
improvisation/ensemble training. I have done it with others and the  
emphasis has been off kilter and nowhere near as useful and subtle.  
Its called something like. "Lets.. yes lets" So the game is you have  
a large group and people shout out: "Let's all stand on one leg!",  
"let's jump up and down" "Let's jump out the window!" etc.. or any  
proposal. At that point the whole group shout "yes let's.."  and  
they do it.

People think it's a game about saying yes and everyone not blocking  
ideas however, this is not keith's emphasis. He says you have to  
notice if you do or don't want to do it and if you don't you drop  
out. (Two feet). You have to be honest about whether you do or don't  
want to do it. So it's actually a game about finding out which  
offer's are "clever ideas" and which are offers it's easy to say yes  
to. The discovery I had after doing this over the years was that the  
ideas people consent to are not the "wacky" or "clever" or even more  
"interesting" ones, they are ideas that are already emergent but  
have been caught in the moment and crystalised or voiced by someone  
in the group. They are often slightly out of awareness but seem oh  
so obvious once said. However they are still definitely within the  
frame of the group's culture and don't interrupt or destroy the  
world the players are inhabiting.

When these ideas are suggested.. there seems to be a freedom to  
follow easily and when they are more like intellectual ideas they  
involve duality and the assessment of whether it's a good idea or  
not. Similarly ideas that come from nature in the sense of things  
like mistakes or things that come out of including  a more secondary  
process are taken up with great energy. They are easy for the group  
to play with. This means that ideas that there is  an in the moment  
consensus for are the ones which one can choose to bring oneself to  
and play.  Sometimes it feels like there is no question but to  
follow and play.  Suggestions that seem like orders are harder to  
play with. Suggestions which have open space around them seems to  
make them an attractor  for engagement with choice.

This seems to suggest that consensus which is taken up with energy  
may be the ideas which are emergent within the field. In searching  
for consensus could it be possible to vote on the idea which hasn't  
quite revealed itself yet but is already present.

Phelim




On 16 Aug 2008, at 17:51, Peggy Holman wrote:

I must admit to having little energy for consensus process, though  
I have seen its remarkable power to shift a group to a new level of  
understanding when people truly do listen to that one hold-out  
voice who brings some very important truth into the mix.  Still, I  
believe Open Space, as an ongoing practice, a collective way of  
being, provides a very useful alternative framework.

I think of the essence of Open Space as taking responsibility for  
what you love.  (As an aside, I now believe that to do so is always  
an act of service, not the selfish act that some assume it would  
be.  But that's another conversation....)

Now, there is a major assumption in what follows, but I seem to  
recall this is a going in condition for consensus process as well:  
that the people involved are committed to the well-being of the  
system of which they are a part.

This is primarily what I learned from Spirited Work, an Open Space  
community of practice which used the four principles and the law as  
its operating framework (along with Angeles Arrien's four-fold  
way).  In practice, those who cared about something, took  
responsibility to make it happen.  If, for some reason, their  
actions created dissonance, the issue found its way into the  
marketplace and those who cared showed up to deal with it.  This  
happened with everything from washing dishes to dealing with a  
financial deficit early in the community's life.

I think this approach puts decision making into the flow of life, a  
reminder that no decision is permanent.  Those who care, act and if  
something hiccups, well, then, it surfaces and those who care,  
convene, reflect, and act anew.

Now all that said, when the risk goes up, perhaps because the  
nature of the action is difficult to undo, then it can be  
challenging.  Transparency is essential so that people can step in  
should they choose to do so.  As groups stumble through learning to  
do this, I think they develop the capacity to discern when to bring  
something into a larger group for discussion, knowing that action  
will flow based on taking responsibility for what one loves as an  
act of service.  I have experienced this sort of co-sensing on many  
occasions.  It seems to involve 1) understanding that a decision is  
a moment in a larger unfolding and 2) radically trusting others in  
the community, knowing they are taking responsibility for what they  
love in service to a larger whole.

So much more to be said, but I'll end off here for now.

open-heartedly,
Peggy

______________________________
Peggy Holman
The Open Circle Company
15347 SE 49th Place
Bellevue, WA  98006
425-746-6274
www.opencirclecompany.com

For the new edition of The Change Handbook, go to:
www.bkconnection.com/ChangeHandbook

"An angel told me that the only way to step into the fire and not  
get burnt, is to become
the fire".
  -- Drew Dellinger





On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Bui Petersen wrote:

Peter,

This is necessarily my favoured definition of consensus but rather  
the most thorough one that I have seen. Just meant to illustrate  
the amount of work sometimes required to reach consensus.

Bui

Peter Emerson wrote:

Dear Bui,

You propose the following definition:

"Consensus is a group decision - which some members may not feel  
is the best decision but which they can all live with, support,  
and commit themselves to not undermine - arrived at without  
voting, through a process whereby the issues are fully aired, all  
members feel that they have been adequately heard, in which  
everyone has equal power and responsibility, and different  
degrees of influence by virtue of individual stubbornness or  
charisma are avoided, so that all are satisfied with the process.”

May I suggest a slight amendment, adding the two words ‘with or’,  
as follows:

"Consensus is a group decision - which some members may not feel  
is the best decision but which they can all live with, support,  
and commit themselves to not undermine - arrived atwith or  
without voting, through a process whereby the issues are fully  
aired, all members feel that they have been adequately heard, in  
which everyone has equal power and responsibility, and different  
degrees of influence by virtue of individual stubbornness or  
charisma are avoided, so that all are satisfied with the process.”

And a voting process in which “everyone has equal power” is, may  
I further suggest (as in my original splurb), a consensus vote, a  
multi-option preference vote, a Modified Borda Count.

Just because some voting procedures are so dreadful – probably  
the worst is the two-option majority vote – does not mean that  
all voting procedures are bad.

Peter

Peter Emerson
www.deborda.org

From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Harrison Owen
Sent: 15 August 2008 20:30
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

I quite like what Scott Peck says, although when you read it, it  
sounds like very hard work, something which can be achieved only  
occasionally and under special circumstances. I wonder whether  
the truth is rather different. Indeed I might suggest that the  
vast majority of decisions made in any group or organization  
occur by consensus. There is no argument, no great discussion,  
“it” whatever it was, just seemed like the right thing to do –  
and that is what happened. Somewhere along the line we came to  
the notion that decision is always a matter of formal action,  
constrained by rules and procedure. This certainly seems to be  
the reality in a number of organizations – which I find totally  
claustrophobic! Probably just me – but my experience is that the  
essence of life is deciding. Most of the time it just sort of  
flows. But there are certainly times when it gets bumpy and hard  
and most usually that happens when I try to force things. Crazy?

Harrison

Harrison Owen
189 Beaucaire Ave
Camden, ME 04843
207-763-3261 (Summer)
301-365-2093 (Winter)
Website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com
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From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Bui Petersen
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:46 PM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

I have been absent from this list for a rather long time. Life  
has intervened again (I have just moved from Vancouver to St.  
John's, Newfoundland) and kept me away from anything to do with  
Open Space. But the discussion on consensus makes me come out  
from hiding.

Harrison, I agree with much of what you say. However, I think the  
difficulty with any discussion on consensus is that everybody has  
a different interpretation of what "consensus" means. The way I  
see it, consensus is not something you come at easily. Reaching  
what I consider to be true consensus requires a process that  
gives plenty of space for disagreements to be voiced. If a  
solution can be found that everyone believes is the best  and  
most reasonable (considering the alternatives), and that everyone  
is willing to support, that could be considered consensus. It  
requires a lot of time and effort and is not always practical or  
even desirable.

What irritates me the most is when people talk about consensus as  
if it only means a strong majority, as in "8 out of 10 support  
this options; it looks like we have consensus. A more common  
problem, however, is that people suppress their disagreement in  
order to not be seen as "difficult".

The most thorough definition of consensus that I have come across  
is:

"Consensus is a group decision - which some members may not feel  
is the best decision but which they can all live with, support,  
and commit themselves to not undermine - arrived at without  
voting, through a process whereby the issues are fully aired, all  
members feel that they have been adequately heard, in which  
everyone has equal power and responsibility, and different  
degrees of influence by virtue of individual stubbornness or  
charisma are avoided, so that all are satisfied with the process.  
The process requires the members to be emotionally present and  
engaged; frank in a loving, mutually respectful manner; sensitive  
to each other; to be selfless, dispassionate, and capable of  
emptying themselves; and possessing a paradoxical awareness of  
both people and time, including knowing when the solution is  
satisfactory, and that it is time to stop and not re-open the  
discussion until such time that the group determines a need for  
revision." [© 1988, Valley Diagnostic, Medical, and Surgical  
Clinic, Inc. of Harlingen, Texas and the Foundation for Community  
Encouragement, Knoxville, Tennessee] (as quoted by M. Scott Peck).

My two cents.

Bui

Harrison Owen wrote:
Peter – Tyranny by the majority is certainly a downside of  
Democracy as practiced in my country (USA). That said, it seems  
to me that there are circumstances where it is the preferable  
alternative. The passage of the Civil Rights Act here in the US  
was vociferously and often violently opposed by a very vocal  
minority, however I would doubt that many black Americans opposed  
the vigorous enforcement of that act, and fortunately (for the  
good of the country) a majority of all Americans, regardless of  
hue, were in agreement.

Consensus politics has much to commend it, but it too has its  
downsides. Resolution at the lowest common denominator is one  
such, which often appears to be no resolution at all.  
Alternatively, the whole system may simply become paralyzed. At  
such times, I for one find myself longing for a straight up or  
down vote. There is also such a thing a Tyranny of Consensus, I  
think.

Perhaps it is useful to think in terms of both/and as opposed to  
either/or? For example, Majority Rule, as in the case of the  
Civil Rights act, was possible only because of a prior consensus  
in the American Population that the Rule of Law was to be  
preferred even if you were on the wrong side of the Law.

I suspect that the situation is infinitely more complicated than  
the simple alternative (Consensus/Majority Rule). My learning has  
been that our capacity to design and implement effective systems  
of all sorts (political, corporate, etc) is limited at best. We  
simply cannot comprehend the infinite complexity and random  
occurrences (essential chaos), characteristic of all living  
systems. Our solutions are always approximations, and try as we  
might, we will never get it “right” – and for sure we will never  
be in control.  This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t keep trying,  
but I think it is essential that we understand the true status of  
our creations – they are maps, and never to be confused with the  
territory. Like all maps, some are better than others, and as  
conditions change these maps become more or less relevant/accurate.

We really get in trouble when we decide that there is “One Right  
Way.” This effectively limits our options and reduces the living  
space (open space). Pushed to extremes the system will die –  
which is the end state of all systems, regardless. When you run  
out of space/time you run out of life. Fortunately our maps do  
not create the systems, and our systems are infinitely more  
robust than our designs could ever be. Are they perfect? No. They  
are always on the way to something new. And if they ever get  
“there” that will be the end, I think.

Harrison



Harrison Owen
189 Beaucaire Ave
Camden, ME 04843
207-763-3261 (Summer)
301-365-2093 (Winter)
Website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com
OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options 
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From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Peter Emerson
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:21 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

Dear Jack,

They key, then, is to ask these folks, do they believe in  
democracy?  Yes?  Oh jolly good.  And do they believe democracy  
is for everybody, or just a majority?  And if they agree to the  
former, away you go.

Mediation works only when the parties to the dispute agree to  
it.  Democracy should work for all democrats.  Russians and  
Georgians claim the adjective.  But the idea that a majority can  
determine the fate of an unwilling minority should be abhorrent…  
to both.

Cheers,

Peter


Peter Emerson
Director, The de Borda Institute
36 Ballysillan Road
Belfast BT14 7QQ

028 90 711795
078 377 17979

pemer...@deborda.org
www.deborda.org

The Borda count "is the best protection ever devised from the  
tyranny of the majority."  Professor Sir Michael Dummett.
From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of  
Jack Martin Leith
Sent: 14 August
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

Peter,

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain the method in so much  
detail. I've turned your post into a Word document and filed it  
under Decision Making Methods for future reference.

The challenge is getting people's agreement to use the method.

Catch-22!

Warm wishes,

Jack

Jack Martin Leith
Now-to-New activist
Bristol, United Kingdom
Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)
Skype: jackmartinleith
email: j...@jackmartinleith.com
www.jackmartinleith.com
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