Lucy is reflecting my feelings about this interchange
Denise
On Nov 19, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Lucy Garrick - NorthShore Group wrote:
I am not so interested in the history of this debate or which
website, Nings, blogs end up part of the OS community - I am just
glad we have choices.
Consider me someone who likes to know what time it is, but does not
necessarily need to know how to build a watch.
Because this discussion is on a listserv I get everysingle comment,
and as a consequence I get to see what is going on all the time. I
also have to scan and delete dozens of emails everyday or read them
all - either is not a very efficient choice for me. What I like
about a wiki, blog or discussion forum is that you can choose which
discussion to follow.
I wonder if it would be possible, and even a good idea at this
point, to take this discussion about platforms to support the OS
community to a blog or the Ning? If not, my only alternative is to
ignore all posts or drop off the listserv.
Thanks, Lucy
Lucy Garrick
NorthShore Group
Business/Organizational Consultant/Coach
http://www.northshoregroup.net
Ph: +1*206-335-5635
Time zone: PDT/GMT -7
Blog: Global Outlook From The North Shore
Twitter: NewsAboutChange
On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Kaliya * wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Justin T. Sampson
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Kaliya *
<[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah - MEATBALL WIKI IS NOT A MAINSTREAM WIKI.
I must say I'm a bit baffled by this whole exchange. I often find
much value in your posts, but as a moderate techie you must
realize that ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING
I was yelling.
I have been saying this to Micheal for years and he keeps saying
"it is mainstream" - and quite frankly it isn't.
Having an old out of date syntax that is not appropriate to expect
non-tech-inclined people to learn in this community.
Yes it may be easy to "install" and beautiful to maintain (From
your perspective as a developer) but that is beside the point if
it not usable for people like Lisa.
I'm a more extreme techie (currently working as a software
engineer at Google), I've built and installed a bunch of software,
and I host a few small websites (including www.wosonos2008.org),
and I just have to point out that it's no trivial feat to keep a
site up and running for a decade, community involvement or no.
Maybe it is not clear from the tone of how the dialogue unfolded.
I respect what Micheal has created and 10 years ago it was totally
appropriate to "Just put up a site" and the only way to maintain
it was to hand edit the HTML etc. This site is that kind of site -
hard to "just open up" and it is his right not to.
When I first got to this community I went to find the wiki and
tried to edit it and got totally stalled and I am technically
literate and participate in many a open standards community
editing wiki's all the time. I counldn't easily access and change
this one. I assumed that this site was managed and developed by
and in community. I only learned from my dialogues with people
that "really it is Micheal's site" but the site doesn't say this.
The site was not and still is not labeled as Micheal Herman's
"personal site" (put up in service of a community) and hopefully
now that he has come clean and "owned" that it is "his" this will
help our clients showing up on it thinking it is "THE worldwide
home of Open Space Technology" to realize that it is just one guys
site.
There are now many more collaborative community tool's that have
evolved in 10 years and I think we as a community should be using
them together. The web changed and the world wide home of open
space should change too.
UseMod, the wiki software used by both MeatBallWiki and
OpenSpaceWorld.NET, is open source, very simple, and super easy to
install and maintain. It's one of my favorite wiki systems for
those reasons. It was created 10 years ago and hence its syntax
and style are reminiscent of the original wiki.
Yes - so it is fine for technie nerds like your self to "learn how
to edit" but not for regular folks here on OS land.
If we installed media wiki and people learned the syntax for that
- they could actually use it may other places including the whole
universe of media wiki sites.
had no trouble logging in and making some edits this evening (just
to add my name page). I went and looked at the website for that
Planet Planet feed aggregator you mentioned, to see how easy it is
to install, and there's no obvious documentation -- at first I
could only see some links to sync from their code repository,
until on third or fourth reading I noticed links to some tarballs.
And this is what you want Michael to install when you don't even
know how yourself?
Because I am part of a really amazing technical community that
uses it to stay connected and thing it would be good for this
community - why not recommend it to Michael for this community.
Saying I should know how to install it to make the recomendation
doesn't make any sense.
Having gone through the pain of installing software too many
times, these days my first choice is definitely to go with a fully-
hosted and ad-supported system. It's definitely important to be
able to backup the data, though, so any guidance you can offer
about who supports what is extremely valuable. Also, the web
search rankings are indeed quite changeable -- in fact,
redesigning a successful site to make it more "beautiful" can
easily knock it off the top if you're not careful. I've seen it
happen, and it's no fun.
Yes - I know search engine rankings are movable.
BTW The wikipedia article also says this....in external links. ...
"openspaceworld.org" Supporting and supported by Open Space
practitioners worldwide. The site offers materials (or links to
materials) in 20 different languages. Includes the primary website
of the Open Space Institute USA.
I wonder if someone from the OSI-USA board can speak to the fact
that Micheal's personal site is considered their primary website.
I do think we can make a new and better real home for the world
wide community to connect and share about this amazing practice we
share.
-Kaliya
Please keep pushing for improvement and openness... And keep
breathing, too.
With gentle respect,
Justin
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