Hi Bernd/'Bernardo'
I am trying to recup the mails I have missed when they were posted to
the OSlist. I have chosen this one to answer as I could have chosen any other
on the same topic.
1. I like your idea of a "colective master" in OST.
2. I also agree that there are similarities between OST and the Eastern
cultures.
3. You have mentioned a lot of religion traditions beginning with Buddhism,
but you have not mentioned Taoism, which, IMHO, is the basis for many of them -
with a small difference.
4. From the "Tao Te Ching" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching),
that I prefer to translate as "The Book of the Way and the
Virtue/Integrity", that I bought many years ago in Macao, in a (good)
Portuguese translation, I find some very interesting points:
4.1. The book is a cultural/philosophical tradition, nor a religious one,
and there is no Creator and no God (nor Gods) in it.
4.2. “In the beginning it was the Tao” that has "no name" and
"can't be named". Hence it is so compatible with the Big Bang hypothesis
as to any other (scientific or not).
4.3. As there is no God in Taoism there is no "God related moral"
and the virtue can be considered as an ethic (even - one could sustain - an
atheistic one).
5. IMHO mankind and the Universe need much more of Tao and an atheist ethic
than of a religious moral (that many of the “converts” often don’t respect,
btw).
6. I have no problem with Harrison being a priest (as well as Brian was), if he
(they) don't try to justify Open Space from their religious convictions, which
I never saw any of them doing - and, if they did, that would mean, btw,
"invoking the name
of God in vain" ;-)
Regards
Artur
________________________________
From: Bernhard Weber <[email protected]>
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 5:12 AM
Subject: [OSList] Individual and collective master (was: OST - Open Systems
Thinking)
Harrison and all
I like the recently upcoming discussion about the history of Systems Thinking,
but I would also like to make a big jump from this.
I am not shure, but to me it seems to not be by pure "accident".
1. Recently Stanley park wrote "Now is the territory of Peace- Nirvana"
2. And some days later you Harrison wrote "Open the space of your life and the
lives of those around you, and you will discover your own natural state".
"Your own natural state", that is exactly how Buddhist masters (like e.g.
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the contemporary Tibetan Dzogchen-teacher)
refer to what is often called enlightenment, liberation, Rigpa, ...
Although it is not really possible to "feel" something behind the words of a
written posting, I always felt some kind of reluctance by side of you, when
somebody in the group related the effects of OST or the OS spirit to central
Buddhist concepts. Would you prefer to not discuss it (treat it as a tabu) or
am I completely wrong here? (And my feeling demasked as pseudo-feeling;-)
I am here in Sri Lanka at the beginning of the 7th year of residence, the
place/space where Gautamas words have been put into Pali language and written
down some hundreds of years after his passing away/paranirvana. So all this is
resonating in me as a kind of effect of the Spirit of the space/genius loci.
Anyhow I would like to invite you and all to explore, if the following idea
makes sense:
What the two citations above seem to hint at in my eyes , is a quite specific
function/effect of Open Space: being a trigger for processes during which not
only things get done, as it has been pointed out again and again, but a trigger
for processes that may also lead to enlightenment. If there is some value in
that idea, then OS might be a collective equivalent of a master
A master also can only be a trigger, because as already the historical Gautama
(called the Buddha) stated, that he can, on basis of his own experience only
show the way, point to the right direction, but the practitioner has to do the
work. There is no way that the master can do it (the full liberation, the
reaching of the natural state) for the student.
So I am wondering if the efficiency and effectiveness of OST in getting things
done, is not intrinsicly knitted together with (alias dialectically connected
to) this "collective master function". Two sides of one medal?
Of course I am not interested to tie OS to Buddhism as a belief system.
But of course my understanding of the ways to enlightenment is also not tied to
a specific belief system. I have luckily been exposed to "passion,
responsability and love " in- and outside of OST in various cultures like my
own Christian culture in Austria, Candomblé in Brazil, animistic cults (as the
christians call them) in Africa, Buddhism of the Theravada, Mahayana, and
Tibetan tradition (Buddhism fused with Bön), Yoga in India... And it always
works and in all kinds of places.
So once again: might it be legitimate, make sense and be useful to look at OST
as a kind of set up for a collective master without a present individual guru?
Or not?
Bernd/Colombo
.
Bernd Weber
Change Facilitation s.r.o., A Global Partner Who Makes Change Happen in Complex
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Am 13.12.2011 um 22:11 schrieb Harrison Owen:
discover your own natural state
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