Thank you Paul. I'm not sure how to respond or if I need to. :) Truth with always elude us since we're tiny. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand. And as you say: "Perhaps it's us self-organising so the self might know it" That's what I'm suggesting. Our experiences might help us towards some more coherence.
Marie Ann On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:09 PM, paul levy <[email protected]> wrote: > Of course, all of these wonderful statements about what self-organisation > is, are organising statements ! > > Open Space Technology itself, minimal as it is, is an organising process. > > I do enjoy lazy philosophy. It's part of our mysterious humanity. And > making statements about self-organisation is like trying to bite your own > teeth. You can't grasp this particular spiritual feather because you are > the feather, the wind, the blowing and even the story of it. > > Though, perhaps the "self" in self-organisation really does refer to the > human self. > > The eye is formed by the light, for the light. Perhaps it's us > self-organising so the self might know it. > > Happy New Year > > Paul Levy > > > On Monday, 30 December 2013, Daniel Mezick wrote: > >> Such a rich topic! Thanks to Marie Ann Östlund for opening this topic. >> >> I am compelled to add the following words (verbatim) from RIGHTS OF MAN, >> by Thomas Paine. The book is quite an interesting read for folks like us. >> It tends to confirm and join with all of Harrison's key points. >> >> My favorite quote in the book: >> "...society performs for itself almost everything that is ascribed to >> government." >> >> When he says [society] in the text, he means groups to people who are >> self-organizing, according to natural propensity. >> >> The whole book is here, for free: >> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007 >> >> Quoting below, from this specific section: >> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001 >> >> Will you pardon my forwardness? I've taken the liberty of bolding a few >> words for emphasis: >> >> "So far is it from being true, as has been *pretended*, that the >> abolition of any formal government is the dissolution of society, that it >> acts by a contrary impulse, and brings the latter the closer together. All >> that part of its organisation which it had committed to its government, >> devolves again upon itself, and acts through its medium. When men, as well >> from natural instinct as from reciprocal benefits, have habituated >> themselves to social and civilised life, *there is always enough of its >> principles in practice to carry them* through any changes they may find >> necessary or convenient to make in their government. In short, *man is >> so naturally a creature of society* that it is almost impossible to put >> him out of it. >> >> * "Formal government makes but a small part of civilised life*; and when >> even the best that human wisdom can devise is established, it is a thing >> more in name and idea than in fact. It is to the great and fundamental >> principles of society and civilisation—to the common usage universally >> consented to, and mutually and reciprocally maintained—to the unceasing >> circulation of interest, which, passing through its million channels, >> invigorates the whole mass of civilised man—it is to these things, >> infinitely more than to anything which even the best instituted government >> can perform, that the safety and prosperity of the individual and of the >> whole depends. >> >> * "The more perfect civilisation is, the less occasion has it for >> government*, because the more does it regulate its own affairs, *and >> govern itself*; but so contrary is the practice of old governments to >> the reason of the case, that the expenses of them increase in the >> proportion they ought to diminish. It is but few general laws that >> civilised life requires, and those of such common usefulness, that whether >> they are enforced by the forms of government or not, the effect will be >> nearly the same.* If we consider what the principles are* that first >> condense men into society, and what are the motives that regulate their >> mutual intercourse afterwards, we shall find, by the time we arrive at what >> is called government, that *nearly the whole of the business is >> performed by the natural operation of the parts upon each other. * >> >> "Man, with respect to all those matters, is more a creature of >> consistency than he is aware, or than governments would wish him to >> believe. *All the great laws of society are laws of nature.* Those of >> trade and commerce, whether with respect to the intercourse of individuals >> or of nations, are laws of mutual and reciprocal interest. They are >> followed and obeyed, because it is the interest of the parties so to do, >> and *not on account of any formal laws their governments may impose or >> interpose. * >> >> *** >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/30/13 11:10 AM, Harrison Owen wrote: >> >> Marie – I think you have it just right. But maybe you are making things >> a little too complicated, and working a bit too hard. In my simple mind, >> things look like this. First: All systems are self organizing, even those >> we think we organize. Second: Organizing a self organizing system is not >> only an oxymoron, but stupid – especially when the system can do a better >> job all by itself. Third: Whenever we try to organize a self-organizing >> system, we inevitably get it wrong. Our efforts are “clunky.” Even though >> it may look great on paper, our efforts are never subtle or flexible >> (agile) enough. Fourth: Open Space is simply an invitation to self >> organize. In other words it is simply an invitation to be and do what we >> are. The fact that it works as it does has nothing to do with our knowing >> any philosophy, principles, practices... It works as it has for 13.7 >> billion years, long before we arrived on the scene, all without our help >> and assistance. Fifth: the real value of OST is as a training program >> enabling us to experience consciously and intentionally what all too often >> passes by unnoticed – Life. It is also a marvelous laboratory in which we >> can learn more about our natural state. And oh yes – all the principles, >> philosophies, practices, etc are fun, interesting, and useful to the extent >> that they help us to understand with greater clarity what is really going >> on. But at the end of the day they really don’t change a thing. I think. >> >> >> >> ho >> >> >> >> Harrison Owen >> >> 7808 River Falls Dr. >> >> Potomac, MD 20854 >> >> USA >> >> >> >> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) >> >> Camden, Maine 04843 >> >> >> >> Phone 301-365-2093 >> >> (summer) 207-763-3261 >> >> >> >> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20> >> >> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website) >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of >> OSLIST Go >> to:<http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click >> below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> >> -- >> >> Daniel Mezick, President >> >> New Technology Solutions Inc. >> >> (203) 915 7248 (cell) >> >> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. >> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. >> >> Examine my new book: The Culture Game >> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the >> Agile Manager. >> >> Explore Agile Team >> Training<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/>and >> Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/> >> >> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/> >> Community. >> > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > >
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