what a precious tale and what wise words… Thank you so much Rob

Romy


Romy Shovelton

Director
Wikima and Tyddyn Retreat
The Mid Wales Retreat & Holiday Centre

www.walescottageandvenue.co.uk
Facebook: Tyddyn Retreat
Twitter: @MidWalesRetreat

[email protected]
[email protected]
skype: romy shovelton

07767 370739

Tyddyn y Pwll
Carno
Caersws
Powys
SY17 5JU


On 7 Aug 2014, at 21:04, [email protected] wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Management and Organization (R Chaffe)
>   2. Re: Management and Organization (Harrison Owen)
>   3. Re: Management and Organization (Daniel Mezick)
> 
> From: R Chaffe <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Management and Organization
> Date: 7 August 2014 04:53:11 BST
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> <[email protected]>
> Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> <[email protected]>
> 
> 
> I have been following this thread with interest.  Some may recall OSonOS 
> gathering in Marysville in November 2002 when we went out into the forest to 
> see and hear the night creatures.  As we walked into the forest the only 
> sound was the sound of our feet on the earth and despite the best efforts of 
> a highly skilled ranger no night creatures could be found.  All the 
> components were in place, well organised and managed.  No night creatures!  
> The forest was silent.
> 
> Everyone went away with their own thoughts including disbelief that the 
> Australian forest is alive at night.  There was a strong sense of 
> disappointment - it did not work!
> 
> Before the month had ended the environment responded with a series of wild 
> fires that included over 6million hectares of high rainfall and alpine forest 
> and the National Capital city was invaded by fire.  Complex self organising 
> systems at work.
> 
> The question then goes back to that silent night.   Some of us listened to 
> the silence and with a deep sense of dread realising that all was not well.  
> There was no "silver bullet" quick fix it was a systemic issue way beyond 
> control or management.  What we did was prepare the things we had control 
> over  in readiness for the fires that would come.  Little did I know that I 
> would spend most of 57 days in an incident control centre coordinating 
> information and advice to the community about the sate of a rapidly  changing 
>  mostly unpredictable wild fire.  The result in Victoria was less that 10 
> homes lost and on the day a rain storm eventually controlled the fire a young 
> lady was drowned when her vehicle was washed into a stream by flood waters - 
> yes in a drought and after nearly two months of fire.
> 
> What did I learn about complex systems, management and control?  
> 
> First wild fire cannot be "controlled" by man.  We stay at the edges and do 
> the best to protect assets, we mop up and clear up, we do our best to give 
> the people the best information to make informed decisions about what they 
> will do. (In the end it is their choice).   Mostly people organise themselves 
> well, some better than others but in the end, good or bad, the decisions are 
> theirs.
> 
> Second willing participants in an "open" environment can achieve outstanding 
> things way beyond what expectations might be.  How they do it is up to them, 
> they have some guidelines but the process that evolves is theirs.   Again 
> sometimes it works and sometimes..... Despite what I think or do.
> 
> In a major incident "co-ordination" centre  there is structure with key 
> decision points (people) a time table (plan mostly to ensure others needs are 
> respected) a massive amount of self organising and adjustment to constant 
> change.  Change that could be fatal, change that does not allow the luxury of 
> time out to plan a process or select a model and change that needs a response 
> now.  Within the organisation the one thing that was most controllable was 
> the selection and support of the people working there. The outcome was a 
> sense of team with each member working to dovetail into the work of others to 
> remove frustration and reach consensus with the best possible outcome.
> 
> In some sense the team meetings each day were an open space event with each 
> bringing their issues and concerns acting with commitment and accepting a 
> high level of responsibility.  The report from the meeting formed the game 
> plan until the next change, which at times may only be only minutes away - on 
> one night meetings were being held every 15 minutes with broadcasts over 
> national and regional radios to inform the community of the changes that may 
> impact on them so that they could do what they needed to do (not command or 
> control just advice).
> 
> 12 years later I have spent too much time in incident coordination centres 
> yet remarkably, or not so, a similar pattern emerged.  The most successful 
> always being where leadership focused on creating and environment where 
> individuals could perform at their best while respecting a diversity of 
> responses to change that reflect the complexity of the natural, human and 
> economic environment the change was taking place in.
> 
> What can Open Space technology really offer?  What control do I really have? 
> What I am responsible for?
>  
> As I see it the reality is that as the Facilitator all that I can promise is 
> to provide an opportunity for the group to meet and an opportunity to 
> participate in dealing with a particular topic.   I can influence the choice 
> of the topic, the invitation to participate and the creation of the safe 
> space including the structure of the event (environment, food, and other 
> safety needs that form the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs to free the 
> participants from these concerns and focus on the purpose of the meeting).
> 
> I cannot  promise any solutions, or reports, proceedings, quality of input or 
> output, satisfaction and the ongoing relationships between the participants.  
>  These are the responsibilities of the sponsor or the organisation or 
> community who chose to attend.   I may influence the methods that groups may 
> choose to explore their agenda item but in the end they must do it their way 
> including the law of two feet.
> 
> I do not have a simple solution, quick fix, or a "silver bullet".  I do have 
> the experience to share, that just as in the parable of the mustard seed 
> there will be outcomes way beyond what we can imagine.  The mustard seed 
> grows into a tree, so what! The tree becomes an entire habitat for all types 
> of life (macro and micro) way beyond a simple tree.  Some of the things that 
> come from planting the seed eventually lead to the death of the tree, but if 
> you do not plant the seed the tree will never grow and you will never know 
> what possibilities / opportunities you have lost including the genetic change 
> in the new seed crop that may grow into a new tree, not quite the same as the 
> old.  The question then becomes, is the "sponsor" willing to allow the "seed" 
> to be planted and are they willing to assist the nurture of the "tree"as it 
> grows to what ever it will be?
> 
> I see my task is in the preparation of the event and ensure the seed is 
> planted in the best possible way then, allow the passion and responsibility 
> of the sponsor and participants to do what they do.  If there is respect for 
> diversity and a will to include all as best as possible there is a real 
> possibility that the "organisation" will be successful in their own terms.  
> 
> One implication is that there is always something of me left behind as I 
> opened the space and, if I have done my job, the participants will be 
> confident that they did it their way.
> 
> Regards
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Harrison Owen" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Management and Organization
> Date: 7 August 2014 13:41:56 BST
> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" 
> <[email protected]>
> Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> <[email protected]>
> 
> 
> Rob – Totally brilliant! Well thought and well written, deserving of many 
> re-reads and expansion. You got a book here that needs to be written!! 
> Something about the 5th Principle (Wherever it happens is the right place) 
> personified. Or “All the world is Open Space. OST is merely practice.” Pale 
> reflections of your wonderful tale... I know you will do better. Thank you!!!
>  
> Harrison
>  
> Winter Address
> 7808 River Falls Drive
> Potomac, MD 20854
> 301-365-2093
>  
> Summer Address
> 189 Beaucaire Ave.
> Camden, ME 04843
> 207-763-3261
>  
> Websites
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com
> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of 
> OSLIST Go 
> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>  
> From: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R 
> Chaffe
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 11:53 PM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Management and Organization
>  
> I have been following this thread with interest.  Some may recall OSonOS 
> gathering in Marysville in November 2002 when we went out into the forest to 
> see and hear the night creatures.  As we walked into the forest the only 
> sound was the sound of our feet on the earth and despite the best efforts of 
> a highly skilled ranger no night creatures could be found.  All the 
> components were in place, well organised and managed.  No night creatures!  
> The forest was silent.
>  
> Everyone went away with their own thoughts including disbelief that the 
> Australian forest is alive at night.  There was a strong sense of 
> disappointment - it did not work!
>  
> Before the month had ended the environment responded with a series of wild 
> fires that included over 6million hectares of high rainfall and alpine forest 
> and the National Capital city was invaded by fire.  Complex self organising 
> systems at work.
>  
> The question then goes back to that silent night.   Some of us listened to 
> the silence and with a deep sense of dread realising that all was not well.  
> There was no "silver bullet" quick fix it was a systemic issue way beyond 
> control or management.  What we did was prepare the things we had control 
> over  in readiness for the fires that would come.  Little did I know that I 
> would spend most of 57 days in an incident control centre coordinating 
> information and advice to the community about the sate of a rapidly  changing 
>  mostly unpredictable wild fire.  The result in Victoria was less that 10 
> homes lost and on the day a rain storm eventually controlled the fire a young 
> lady was drowned when her vehicle was washed into a stream by flood waters - 
> yes in a drought and after nearly two months of fire.
>  
> What did I learn about complex systems, management and control?  
>  
> First wild fire cannot be "controlled" by man.  We stay at the edges and do 
> the best to protect assets, we mop up and clear up, we do our best to give 
> the people the best information to make informed decisions about what they 
> will do. (In the end it is their choice).   Mostly people organise themselves 
> well, some better than others but in the end, good or bad, the decisions are 
> theirs.
>  
> Second willing participants in an "open" environment can achieve outstanding 
> things way beyond what expectations might be.  How they do it is up to them, 
> they have some guidelines but the process that evolves is theirs.   Again 
> sometimes it works and sometimes..... Despite what I think or do.
>  
> In a major incident "co-ordination" centre  there is structure with key 
> decision points (people) a time table (plan mostly to ensure others needs are 
> respected) a massive amount of self organising and adjustment to constant 
> change.  Change that could be fatal, change that does not allow the luxury of 
> time out to plan a process or select a model and change that needs a response 
> now.  Within the organisation the one thing that was most controllable was 
> the selection and support of the people working there. The outcome was a 
> sense of team with each member working to dovetail into the work of others to 
> remove frustration and reach consensus with the best possible outcome.
>  
> In some sense the team meetings each day were an open space event with each 
> bringing their issues and concerns acting with commitment and accepting a 
> high level of responsibility.  The report from the meeting formed the game 
> plan until the next change, which at times may only be only minutes away - on 
> one night meetings were being held every 15 minutes with broadcasts over 
> national and regional radios to inform the community of the changes that may 
> impact on them so that they could do what they needed to do (not command or 
> control just advice).
>  
> 12 years later I have spent too much time in incident coordination centres 
> yet remarkably, or not so, a similar pattern emerged.  The most successful 
> always being where leadership focused on creating and environment where 
> individuals could perform at their best while respecting a diversity of 
> responses to change that reflect the complexity of the natural, human and 
> economic environment the change was taking place in.
>  
> What can Open Space technology really offer?  What control do I really have? 
> What I am responsible for?
>  
> As I see it the reality is that as the Facilitator all that I can promise is 
> to provide an opportunity for the group to meet and an opportunity to 
> participate in dealing with a particular topic.   I can influence the choice 
> of the topic, the invitation to participate and the creation of the safe 
> space including the structure of the event (environment, food, and other 
> safety needs that form the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs to free the 
> participants from these concerns and focus on the purpose of the meeting).
>  
> I cannot  promise any solutions, or reports, proceedings, quality of input or 
> output, satisfaction and the ongoing relationships between the participants.  
>  These are the responsibilities of the sponsor or the organisation or 
> community who chose to attend.   I may influence the methods that groups may 
> choose to explore their agenda item but in the end they must do it their way 
> including the law of two feet.
>  
> I do not have a simple solution, quick fix, or a "silver bullet".  I do have 
> the experience to share, that just as in the parable of the mustard seed 
> there will be outcomes way beyond what we can imagine.  The mustard seed 
> grows into a tree, so what! The tree becomes an entire habitat for all types 
> of life (macro and micro) way beyond a simple tree.  Some of the things that 
> come from planting the seed eventually lead to the death of the tree, but if 
> you do not plant the seed the tree will never grow and you will never know 
> what possibilities / opportunities you have lost including the genetic change 
> in the new seed crop that may grow into a new tree, not quite the same as the 
> old.  The question then becomes, is the "sponsor" willing to allow the "seed" 
> to be planted and are they willing to assist the nurture of the "tree"as it 
> grows to what ever it will be?
>  
> I see my task is in the preparation of the event and ensure the seed is 
> planted in the best possible way then, allow the passion and responsibility 
> of the sponsor and participants to do what they do.  If there is respect for 
> diversity and a will to include all as best as possible there is a real 
> possibility that the "organisation" will be successful in their own terms.  
>  
> One implication is that there is always something of me left behind as I 
> opened the space and, if I have done my job, the participants will be 
> confident that they did it their way.
>  
> Regards
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> From: Daniel Mezick <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Management and Organization
> Date: 7 August 2014 15:41:15 BST
> To: [email protected]
> Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> <[email protected]>
> 
> 
> Greetings Rob,
> 
> Thanks for posting this narrative. 
> 
> So interesting that the military is now focusing on much of what you have 
> written here, about open systems etc.
> 
> In fact, here is a link to a free PDF download of a book entitled, "The Agile 
> Organization":
> http://www.dodccrp.org/files/Atkinson_Agile.pdf
> 
> What is super interesting is the fact that the book never references software 
> agility, or the 'agile movement', not even one time.
> 
> Chapter 2 starts with these entries:
> 
> Open Systems
> Self Organization
> ...and...
> Self Organizing Social Groups
> 
> The whole www.dodccrp.org web site might be of interest to many here as well. 
> 
> Here is the link to the other useful and free publications found there:
> http://www.dodccrp.org/html4/books_downloads.html
> 
> Regards,
> Daniel
> 
> 
> On 8/6/14 11:53 PM, R Chaffe wrote:
>> I have been following this thread with interest.  Some may recall OSonOS 
>> gathering in Marysville in November 2002 when we went out into the forest to 
>> see and hear the night creatures.  As we walked into the forest the only 
>> sound was the sound of our feet on the earth and despite the best efforts of 
>> a highly skilled ranger no night creatures could be found.  All the 
>> components were in place, well organised and managed.  No night creatures!  
>> The forest was silent.
>> 
>> Everyone went away with their own thoughts including disbelief that the 
>> Australian forest is alive at night.  There was a strong sense of 
>> disappointment - it did not work!
>> 
>> Before the month had ended the environment responded with a series of wild 
>> fires that included over 6million hectares of high rainfall and alpine 
>> forest and the National Capital city was invaded by fire.  Complex self 
>> organising systems at work.
>> 
>> The question then goes back to that silent night.   Some of us listened to 
>> the silence and with a deep sense of dread realising that all was not well.  
>> There was no "silver bullet" quick fix it was a systemic issue way beyond 
>> control or management.  What we did was prepare the things we had control 
>> over  in readiness for the fires that would come.  Little did I know that I 
>> would spend most of 57 days in an incident control centre coordinating 
>> information and advice to the community about the sate of a rapidly  
>> changing  mostly unpredictable wild fire.  The result in Victoria was less 
>> that 10 homes lost and on the day a rain storm eventually controlled the 
>> fire a young lady was drowned when her vehicle was washed into a stream by 
>> flood waters - yes in a drought and after nearly two months of fire.
>> 
>> What did I learn about complex systems, management and control?  
>> 
>> First wild fire cannot be "controlled" by man.  We stay at the edges and do 
>> the best to protect assets, we mop up and clear up, we do our best to give 
>> the people the best information to make informed decisions about what they 
>> will do. (In the end it is their choice).   Mostly people organise 
>> themselves well, some better than others but in the end, good or bad, the 
>> decisions are theirs.
>> 
>> Second willing participants in an "open" environment can achieve outstanding 
>> things way beyond what expectations might be.  How they do it is up to them, 
>> they have some guidelines but the process that evolves is theirs.   Again 
>> sometimes it works and sometimes..... Despite what I think or do.
>> 
>> In a major incident "co-ordination" centre  there is structure with key 
>> decision points (people) a time table (plan mostly to ensure others needs 
>> are respected) a massive amount of self organising and adjustment to 
>> constant change.  Change that could be fatal, change that does not allow the 
>> luxury of time out to plan a process or select a model and change that needs 
>> a response now.  Within the organisation the one thing that was most 
>> controllable was the selection and support of the people working there. The 
>> outcome was a sense of team with each member working to dovetail into the 
>> work of others to remove frustration and reach consensus with the best 
>> possible outcome.
>> 
>> In some sense the team meetings each day were an open space event with each 
>> bringing their issues and concerns acting with commitment and accepting a 
>> high level of responsibility.  The report from the meeting formed the game 
>> plan until the next change, which at times may only be only minutes away - 
>> on one night meetings were being held every 15 minutes with broadcasts over 
>> national and regional radios to inform the community of the changes that may 
>> impact on them so that they could do what they needed to do (not command or 
>> control just advice).
>> 
>> 12 years later I have spent too much time in incident coordination centres 
>> yet remarkably, or not so, a similar pattern emerged.  The most successful 
>> always being where leadership focused on creating and environment where 
>> individuals could perform at their best while respecting a diversity of 
>> responses to change that reflect the complexity of the natural, human and 
>> economic environment the change was taking place in.
>> 
>> What can Open Space technology really offer?  What control do I really have? 
>> What I am responsible for?
>>  
>> As I see it the reality is that as the Facilitator all that I can promise is 
>> to provide an opportunity for the group to meet and an opportunity to 
>> participate in dealing with a particular topic.   I can influence the choice 
>> of the topic, the invitation to participate and the creation of the safe 
>> space including the structure of the event (environment, food, and other 
>> safety needs that form the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs to free the 
>> participants from these concerns and focus on the purpose of the meeting).
>> 
>> I cannot  promise any solutions, or reports, proceedings, quality of input 
>> or output, satisfaction and the ongoing relationships between the 
>> participants.   These are the responsibilities of the sponsor or the 
>> organisation or community who chose to attend.   I may influence the methods 
>> that groups may choose to explore their agenda item but in the end they must 
>> do it their way including the law of two feet.
>> 
>> I do not have a simple solution, quick fix, or a "silver bullet".  I do have 
>> the experience to share, that just as in the parable of the mustard seed 
>> there will be outcomes way beyond what we can imagine.  The mustard seed 
>> grows into a tree, so what! The tree becomes an entire habitat for all types 
>> of life (macro and micro) way beyond a simple tree.  Some of the things that 
>> come from planting the seed eventually lead to the death of the tree, but if 
>> you do not plant the seed the tree will never grow and you will never know 
>> what possibilities / opportunities you have lost including the genetic 
>> change in the new seed crop that may grow into a new tree, not quite the 
>> same as the old.  The question then becomes, is the "sponsor" willing to 
>> allow the "seed" to be planted and are they willing to assist the nurture of 
>> the "tree"as it grows to what ever it will be?
>> 
>> I see my task is in the preparation of the event and ensure the seed is 
>> planted in the best possible way then, allow the passion and responsibility 
>> of the sponsor and participants to do what they do.  If there is respect for 
>> diversity and a will to include all as best as possible there is a real 
>> possibility that the "organisation" will be successful in their own terms.  
>> 
>> One implication is that there is always something of me left behind as I 
>> opened the space and, if I have done my job, the participants will be 
>> confident that they did it their way.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Rob
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> 
> -- 
> Daniel Mezick, President
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
> Bio. Blog. Twitter. 
> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game : Tools for the Agile Manager.
> Explore Agile Team Training and Coaching.
> Explore the Agile Boston Community. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

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