Hi there… I’m “off the grid” and incommunicado for a week, maybe longer, following an abdominal surgery I just had. It went well but it’s rather painful and requires bedrest to heal after I’m home from the hospital. (Note to self: figure out better ways of taking time off).
Be well, Dirk PS - for the curious: an operation I had years ago included a secondary incision besides the primary one. That secondary incision (on my belly) herniated, and needed to be repaired. On Oct 2, 2015, at 3:05 PM, via OSList <[email protected]> wrote: > Send OSList mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > (Eleder_BuM via OSList) > 2. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > (Jan H?glund via OSList) > 3. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > (Daniel Mezick via OSList) > 4. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > (Michael Herman via OSList) > 5. help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events and > other learning gatherings? (Michael Herman via OSList) > 6. Re: help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events > and other learning gatherings? (Daniel Mezick via OSList) > 7. Re: help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events > and other learning gatherings? (Michael Herman via OSList) > 8. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > (Suzanne Daigle via OSList) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:52:15 +0200 > From: Eleder_BuM via OSList <[email protected]> > To: Michael Herman <[email protected]>, World wide Open Space > Technology email list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > Message-ID: > <cak1+_w9ikpyldr_bmk9a--6uwdoavvux39mu27h948f-b9k...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello family! > > I find having a local (yearly or every 2 years) osonos very stimulating. > In the Basque Country we started in 2013 (bOSonOS; I knew in Krakow, that > Berliners had done quite many bOSonOS, too) and we are having quite much > fun. The invitation is always open to everyone. Probably we?ll keep doing > bOSONOS for some years, the local community will grow and, little by little > people from far away will like coming. > > Maybe one day we?ll invite for wosonos. If a good bunch of fellows are > eager to share the task so as everyone can enjoy it. If we one day decide > to invite, I suppose it will be quite simple. Then, if people decide to > come *wosonosing*, great. If not, very fine too (one less thing to take > care of :). > > I love attending the international ones from time to time. Enriching, as it > makes possible meeting many new practitioners, and OS is people, as life > is, too, people -for me, mainly > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1J9d27aA0>-. Krakow was fantastic, as > ever. > > I find myself very comfortable when attending an osonos where 30-70 people > attend. Enough variety and not too overwhelming. More manageable. > > I love knowing that the OS community grows on and on, and we are getting to > have several osonos yearly around the world. This way, when one is really > eager to attend one, the "difficulty" would be on oneself, deciding "which > great party will I attend now"? It seems that something like this is > already happening, great! > > I suppose we take on too much responsibility and work because we assume > that the more people come, the better (And, what about "Whoever comes...?"). > > I find, too, that, specially when international, we tend to take on too > much burden as invitors. For example,... > > > - Does the fact that many people will be coming by plane make it more > difficult for the invitors to manage it? Why? > - The payment issue, ... does it involve too much work? What would be > the cons of just allowing paying cash on the site? > - Is a fancy website really required? Or could we even registrate with > an email an d having attendees fill in a 3 minutes form? > - Does the food standard of the meeting tend to be too "smart", "high > quality",... making it more difficult for the sponsors to hold? Why? > - Is organizing a parallel online wosonos really required? Knowing that > the permanent Wosonos is happening all the time on the OSLIST and other > places online? > - Maybe some of us feel the burden of showing the world "what our nation > is like?..." > > > - *Which other details are the ones that make it specially hard > convening wosonos,* (apart from taking or assuming the decisions on how > to manage language diversity)*?* > > Having had so many wars all around the world for centuries,...Maybe it puts > an extra psychological burden on the invitors, wherever they live? Maybe we > tend to make a special effort to make it clear all over the world that "we > are lovely people":)? > > > Regarding the decision on how to decide "where next wosonos"? What > are the special features of wosonos? Maybe that you?ll usually meet there > more os-nicks than in a regular osonos (= that it?s bigger)? maybe that > you?ll meet with people of a wider part of the planet (= that it feels more > diverse)? Perhaps knowing that there are many people that repeat the > experience during years and special bonds appear, and you can get to > know/become more part of this big family? > > I like the original spirit and I find that we could make it that simple now > too,... > > *"Some nice soul just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar > inclinations, but different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered > the following year. No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential > arrangements were made."* > > > I assume that whoever invites is full of passion and able to host us in OS. > And that OS, it?ll always be the same and it?ll be also very different each > time. > > In fact it?s the people coming, the participants, who make the OS > experience. > > In an osonos, a specially high percentage of participants know it, we are > the ones that know it best :)! So why do we care so much (I feel) about who > the invitors+facilitators are and sometimes seem to evaluate if they are > really prepared to hold the event? > > I hope this chaotic and disperse ideas add something to the conversation. > > Enjoy life! > > Eleder > > > 2015-09-30 22:42 GMT+02:00 Michael Herman via OSList < > [email protected]>: > > thanks for raising these questions, pernilla. what you're proposing in > terms of people (rather than countries!) coming forward at the beginning of > the gathering makes great sense to me. these invitations can be offered at > any time, of course, including a week or a month before the wosonos > gathering time. if our tradition were to evolve in that direction, there > could be some commenting on that in advance of the gathering. > > at the same time, the thing that makes for the pressure and scarcity and > overall un-OS feeling of this situation isn't really a question of when the > invites are offered, but that we have developed this habit of having only > one of these gatherings at once, or one per year, or more specifically that > we designate just one as *the* world osonos, even though nordic and haitian > and camden and oz folks and some other have had significant series of > osonos gatherings. > > i really like the idea that these things could happen on several > continents at once, so the wosonos had multiple sites. progress of tools > like qiqochat offer interesting possibilities of being able to easily > bumblebee across oceans. we've also been growing a tradition of spinning > these things up into major productions, perhaps drifting some from the > simple power of our core practice. if we met in more places at once and > traveled shorter distances, maybe the hosts would feel less pressure to > "work too hard" an planning and organizing these things? > > what if the wosonos could evolve in the direction of a kind of > world-around OS carnival/retreat/learning exchange week? many invites, > many parties, i mean working sessions? > > michael > > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > Pernilla ? It always amazes me how simple things complexify and > happenstantial acts suddenly become ?intricate tradition.? > > > > Back in the day, long ages ago, having an Open Space on Open Space (OSONOS) > seemed like a fun thing to do. I think it took me all of 4-5 hours (total) > to organize it, and the ?fee? for attendance was $25. Actually, truth to > tell, I did charge something like $200 for the first one on the grounds > that there was some value added on my part. But after the first one, when > it became quite clear that I really didn?t do a thing... we got back to > something reasonable. That was $25 to cover Post-its, magic markers, News > Print, etc. And when it came to figuring out where it was going to > ?happen? next ? the process was indeed elaborate. Some nice soul just said, > ?Come See us.? If two people had similar inclinations, but different places > in mind, who ever spoke second covered the following year. No fuss, no > bother and in 10 minutes time the essential arrangements were made. > > > > I don?t know when or how, but things started to drag on. I am sure a lot > of folks didn?t see it the same way I did, but I have to confess that I > found my two feet working if the discussion of ?next place? lasted more > than about 10 minutes... being a person of very short attention span. I > have been to most OSONOS?s and loved every one. But a few years ago it did > seem to me that we were working much too hard. It also seemed that having > *THE* (W)OSONOS was somehow a strangely competitive situation. Definitely > working too hard! > > > > As far as I was concerned anyone, anywhere should invite whomsoever to > wherever. OSONOS all over! And just to make the point I tried two such > things in Camden Maine. OSONOS-by-the-Sea, I called it. I think I broke my > record when it came to organizing time. If I said 3 hours, that would be > stretching it. We were filled out in about 48 hours and the fee was $25, > most of which I gave to Lisa for her good work. When it came to > accommodations, I just provided the website of the Chamber of Commerce, and > suggested that anybody who was coming might check it out and find a nice > bed/meal/front porch. A local parish let us have the use of their Hall (for > a small fee) ? and we were in business. Actually the fee that they proposed > was so ridiculously low that I doubled it ? and we still gave most of the > money to Lisa! Go figure. > > > > Maybe it is catching? I notice that Andrew Rixon is welcoming folks to > Melbourne and I am looking forward to joining Mrs. Song and friends in > Beijing shortly. And then of course Manila is upcoming. And what?s > happening in Sweden? > > > > This seems to have gone on for a bit. And I do have a bottom line: If it > ain?t fun, don?t do it. And if you are working too hard, that definitely > begins to cut into the fun. So Pernilla, in an odd sort of way, I just want > to get back to basics ? Would that be tradition? Make it fun. Make it > simple. Open Space wherever you can, and amazing things always happen. The > more the merrier!!!! > > > > Harrison > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Heft - via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > How wonderful, your invitation, in all its richness, Pernilla. > > Another two things I would like to add: > > 1) As always, for any team interested in hosting a WOSonOS for a future > year, I have a growing living letter of lessons-learned - gathered wisdom > from past host teams, that has been growing since 2001 and that I happily > offer to whoever wishes to contact me. My request is that if you, dear > reader, are thinking ?oh that is something I / we will ask Lisa for? then > please wait until a few weeks from now, as I will in a few weeks update it > with the latest Host Team?s lessons-learned. > > And 2) As has happened at several years in the past, including at our > recent WOSonOS - you as a Host Team / Host Team representative do not have > to be physically present at a WOSonOS in order to invite. Several of us > have over the years acted as representatives for teams wishing to invite > who were not able to physically make it. And you can make us do whatever > you like, to represent you ! > > Looking forward to the conversation, > Lisa > > > On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Pernilla Luttropp via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi all! > At the inspiring WOSONOS in Krak?w there were some learning conversations > on how this community goes about when expressing and accepting invitations > from countries/places to host the upcoming WOSONOSes. > > In the big circle there were voices that expressed some confusion and > discomfort with the process. Others said that whatever happened, they would > trust the process. There was also the mentioning of ?traditions? and the > ways things are usually done at a WOSONOS. And the reminder that traditions > are made in every single now and ?Whatever happens is the only thing that > could have?. > > > *If you are new to WOSONOS *This is how it?s usually done (I think): the > countries that wish to host the next WOSONOS makes an invitation at the > closing circle of the WOSONOS and the participants are free to accept any > of the invitations. The process of accepting the invitation is sometimes > done by some kind of ?voting? procedure in order to agree on one place. > There is often someone who reminds everybody that the only way to ?vote? in > Open Space is by applying ?The law of mobility?. There is no need to only > have one WOSONOS, there could be multiple since ?Wherever it happens is the > right place?. > > > *My view *I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? > or to ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space. One of the > beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own engagement. > If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same direction, > eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge. > If a group decides on voting there are many good methods and it?s of > outmost importance for those present to understand what they are about to > do, in order to make an informed decision. Is it a majority decision? How > many is the majority? What happens if some vote no? Is it possible to have > a ballot vote? Is it the role of the facilitator to sum it up and make the > final decision? In my view, we can only express our appreciation for the > invitation at the Open Space, offer help if needed and make use of the law > of mobility. > > > *An invitation *This is an invitation to try something else and maybe to > let go of a ?tradition?. What if we opened up at the beginning of the > process in order to see how it self organizes at the end? > There seems to be something unclear about the ?tradition? on how to get > information about who is inviting and why. If that information were > transparent from the very start of the WOSONOS, it might enable more > dialogue with the inviting hosts and between the hosts. > > The countries/places that wish to host a future WOSONOS could post this > on the OSLIST and Facebook and send a gentle reminder a few weeks before > the upcoming WOSONOS. The inviting hosts would then be posted on a flip > chart at the WOSONOS and announced as a session when creating the bulletin > board or at the evening news. As always there is the opportunity to add > places, sessions and news announcements up until the closing circle, both > on the spot and via other ways of communicating. This would make it easier > for everyone to approach the hosts, express their delight or ask clarifying > questions. It would also enable the hosts (or their representatives) to > come together in a session and find out how they would like to do the > invitations in the closing circle. Maybe some will wait until next year? > Maybe multiple WOSONOSes in one year? Maybe in different continents at the > same time? Maybe with different themes/urgent questions? Let?s embrace > chaos and see what emerges! Or ?Whatever happens is the only thing that > could have?. > > Since the closing circle have a more definite dead line than ?When it is > over it is over?, due to flights and other time restrictions, this > prolonged invitation process will open up time for more dialogues and > invitations. > But then again, as said in the closing circle in Krak?w, there is nothing > like a good mess in order to learn something new J > > Maybe it has been tried before and in that case I?m interested to know > how it worked or didn?t work. > > Greetings from Sweden! > Pernilla > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/87677840/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:55:28 +0200 > From: Jan H?glund via OSList <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > > > > > Some thoughts ... > > Pernilla in Sweden wrote 30 Sep 2015: > > I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to ?make a > collective decision? within an Open Space. > > One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own > engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same > direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge. > > Yes, indeed. > > Here's Tom Atlee's beautiful story on How to make a Decision Without Making a > Decision > > http://www.co-intelligence.org/I-decisionmakingwithout.html > > Tom writes: As I stepped out into the flooded fields I suddenly realized that > no decision had been made. No motion was made. No vote was > taken. > No one checked for consensus. Nothing was announced or recorded. > The group just "knew" how we were going to behave ... > > Jan, also in Sweden > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/19e4fc42/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:18:43 -0400 > From: Daniel Mezick via OSList <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > I experience this thread as a fascinating study in authority. I hope you > do, too. > > On 10/2/15 8:55 AM, Jan H?glund via OSList wrote: > Some thoughts ... > > Pernilla in Sweden wrote 30 Sep 2015: > > I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to > ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space. > > One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for > your own engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk > in the same direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for > things to emerge. > > Yes, indeed. > > Here's Tom Atlee's beautiful story on How to make a Decision Without > Making a Decision > > http://www.co-intelligence.org/I-decisionmakingwithout.html > > Tom writes: As I stepped out into the flooded fields I suddenly > realized that no decision had been made. No motion was made. No vote > was taken. No one checked for consensus. Nothing was announced or > recorded. The group just "knew" how we were going to behave ... > > Jan, also in Sweden > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -- > > Daniel Mezick, President > > New Technology Solutions Inc. > > (203) 915 7248 (cell) > > Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog > <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. > > Examine my new book:The Culture Game > <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the > Agile Manager. > > Explore Agile Team Training > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching. > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/> > > Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/46b149b6/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:29:09 -0500 > From: Michael Herman via OSList <[email protected]> > To: Daniel Mezick <[email protected]>, World wide Open Space > Technology email list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > Message-ID: > <CAD8j=qfrt0e7-ionjtto-yzlgnptfvpjuem6vszh6snpknp...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > thanks for the clarification about how things happened this year, lisa. > this morning i'm wondering if/how any expectation or assumption of voting > might play into people's decision to offer an invitation or not. more, i'm > wondering why we ever started voting at all. when several conveners offer > similar topics when we're facilitating, we might suggest or they just > naturally do go off and have a chat amongst themselves to decide when the > session will happen and what it might be called. often they just push the > posted pages together and say "we're going to do these together," but then > what happens in that corner of the room is some mixing of the various > views. it seems so natural in an OS event and yet it doesn't seem like > we've done this with various would-be conveners of osonos gatherings. have > we just left it to those willing to take responsiblity for hosting to > figure it out and tell us where the next gathering(s) will be offered? i'm > thinking this might move in the direction of jan's atlee story. or maybe > that's the "session" you've been convening year to year, in some way. if > so, have we had an underlying requirement or assumption that there always > be just one physical location convening at any one time? and is that still > necessary? > > and i completely agree with you, eleder, re: doing online wosonos. there > isn't any requirement at all to do any parallel convening. there is some > value and maybe also some responsibility in the way of telling the story, > sharing what's happening. usually this happens by ppts typing up notes. > many times (vancouver, melbourne, swenmark and maybe others) we have been > able to share the notes online at the same time as they are posted on the > wall onsite. always, new conversations have sprung up around those > postings. this acknowledges and feeds a larger practice circle than can > gather in any one location and makes what happens in that location even > more importance and value, i think. the simplest way of sharing those > notes would be posting to the oslist. we've done it in other ways, in > wikis and such. > > this year we offered some options at qiqochat, as part of learning our way > into that platform, as a community. i think of this more like posting a > project/topic at wosonos than being any central part of the hosting team or > task. i think there is something worth exploring, as a community, in this > realm of distributed collaboration as more and more people in agile and > other businesses are learning to work in this way. again, this is learning > is something i see can happen in the context of osonos events, for anyone > who wants to join it (from anywhere), rather than a requirement in creating > an osonos event. osonos is about learning while doing, ya? > > thanks, too, eleder, for reminding about basque country and berlin osonos > events. that must put us up toward 60 gatherings in 20+ years. > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I experience this thread as a fascinating study in authority. I hope you > do, too. > > On 10/2/15 8:55 AM, Jan H?glund via OSList wrote: > > Some thoughts ... > > Pernilla in Sweden wrote 30 Sep 2015: > > I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to ?make > a collective decision? within an Open Space. > > One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your > own engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the > same direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to > emerge. > > Yes, indeed. > > Here's Tom Atlee's beautiful story on How to make a Decision Without > Making a Decision > > http://www.co-intelligence.org/I-decisionmakingwithout.html > > Tom writes: As I stepped out into the flooded fields I suddenly realized > that no decision had been made. No motion was made. No vote was taken. No > one checked for consensus. Nothing was announced or recorded. The group > just "knew" how we were going to behave ... > > Jan, also in Sweden > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click > below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > -- > > Daniel Mezick, President > > New Technology Solutions Inc. > > (203) 915 7248 (cell) > > Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog > <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter > <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. > > Examine my new book: The Culture Game > <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the Agile > Manager. > > Explore Agile Team Training > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching. > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/> > > Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/> > Community. > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/bbf00809/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:41:53 -0500 > From: Michael Herman via OSList <[email protected]> > To: OSLIST <[email protected]> > Subject: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos > events and other learning gatherings? > Message-ID: > <CAD8j=QHwcd=XOD+FBCQZs6R4-wV+=ojj_y2mmz6p3p8ye3w...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > hi all, > > when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org earlier this year, i let go of the > training calendar mechanism that wasn't really working. mostly it was a > little too much work to manage, for me and everyone else. then some folks > showed up and said, "hey, we still want/need something!" we talked about > that group organizing a little calendar team and producing something that > could be embedded in various websites. > > in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what harold > has posted at osi-us website about all the different places (not just > "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i created a public > google calendar for posting trainings, but also osonos events and > stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning events you might want to > share globally. > > IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new > calendar, please email me directly at [email protected]. i'll tell > google that you're allowed to post and tell you how to do it. you can post > one or more events you know about. when we get some stuff posted, we'll > make the calendar public for reference, with open invitation to others to > add next events. > > many thanks! > > michael > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/7528fbee/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:16:43 -0400 > From: Daniel Mezick via OSList <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings, > osonos events and other learning gatherings? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > Hi Michael, > > > I like the idea of an Open Space calendar. Good idea! > > I wonder if the Open Space Institute USA web site (http://www.osius.org) > is the most appropriate and perhaps the best place for this kind of thing. > > As you point out, Harold Shinsato continues to work very, very hard on > the overall OSI-US site, all in service to the Open Space community. > > Here we can see how his hard work helps OSI-US publicize Open Space > training, not just in the USA but around the world, via the OSI-US web > site, for anyone seeking OST training worldwide: > > http://www.osius.org/trainings > > I wonder if you might be willing to contact Harold, discuss how you > might be able to help him and others to compile the list, add your > excellent calendar-idea into the existing OSI-US training-page, etc. > > > > Daniel > www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About > > > > > On 10/2/15 10:41 AM, Michael Herman via OSList wrote: > hi all, > > when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org <http://openspaceworld.org> earlier > this year, i let go of the training calendar mechanism that wasn't > really working. mostly it was a little too much work to manage, for > me and everyone else. then some folks showed up and said, "hey, we > still want/need something!" we talked about that group organizing a > little calendar team and producing something that could be embedded in > various websites. > > in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what > harold has posted at osi-us website about all the different places > (not just "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i > created a public google calendar for posting trainings, but also > osonos events and stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning > events you might want to share globally. > > IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new > calendar, please email me directly at [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. i'll tell google that you're > allowed to post and tell you how to do it. you can post one or more > events you know about. when we get some stuff posted, we'll make the > calendar public for reference, with open invitation to others to add > next events. > > many thanks! > > michael > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -- > > Daniel Mezick, President > > New Technology Solutions Inc. > > (203) 915 7248 (cell) > > Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog > <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. > > Examine my new book:The Culture Game > <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the > Agile Manager. > > Explore Agile Team Training > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching. > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/> > > Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/129a1833/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:40:13 -0500 > From: Michael Herman via OSList <[email protected]> > To: Daniel Mezick <[email protected]>, World wide Open Space > Technology email list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings, > osonos events and other learning gatherings? > Message-ID: > <CAD8j=qgsh9d7y85k133ety1x0syvlkazsn08l9gbrgfonos...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Harold is already part of the conversation, Daniel. And the whole point of > this particular calendar is that many people can add to it AND it can be > embedded in any website, osius, osw, and any others and look exactly the > same everywhere. > > > > On Friday, October 2, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > > I like the idea of an Open Space calendar. Good idea! > > I wonder if the Open Space Institute USA web site (http://www.osius.org) > is the most appropriate and perhaps the best place for this kind of thing. > > As you point out, Harold Shinsato continues to work very, very hard on the > overall OSI-US site, all in service to the Open Space community. > > Here we can see how his hard work helps OSI-US publicize Open Space > training, not just in the USA but around the world, via the OSI-US web > site, for anyone seeking OST training worldwide: > > http://www.osius.org/trainings > > I wonder if you might be willing to contact Harold, discuss how you might > be able to help him and others to compile the list, add your excellent > calendar-idea into the existing OSI-US training-page, etc. > > > > Daniel > www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About > > > > > On 10/2/15 10:41 AM, Michael Herman via OSList wrote: > > hi all, > > when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org earlier this year, i let go of the > training calendar mechanism that wasn't really working. mostly it was a > little too much work to manage, for me and everyone else. then some folks > showed up and said, "hey, we still want/need something!" we talked about > that group organizing a little calendar team and producing something that > could be embedded in various websites. > > in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what harold > has posted at osi-us website about all the different places (not just > "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i created a public > google calendar for posting trainings, but also osonos events and > stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning events you might want to > share globally. > > IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new > calendar, please email me directly at [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>. i'll tell > google that you're allowed to post and tell you how to do it. you can post > one or more events you know about. when we get some stuff posted, we'll > make the calendar public for reference, with open invitation to others to > add next events. > > many thanks! > > michael > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click > below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > -- > > Daniel Mezick, President > > New Technology Solutions Inc. > > (203) 915 7248 (cell) > > Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog > <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter > <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. > > Examine my new book: The Culture Game > <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the Agile > Manager. > > Explore Agile Team Training > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching. > <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/> > > Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/> > Community. > > > > -- > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/77180cb1/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:16:10 -0400 > From: Suzanne Daigle via OSList <[email protected]> > To: Eleder_BuM <[email protected]>, World wide Open Space > Technology email list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS > Message-ID: > <cajh+flclk6urtgtbgs1ftwawjvcog1r6oexzx2wuzakpocn...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dearest Eleder, > > How I love all that you've captured in your note most especially the spirit > of invitation and the joy of attending. The fact that there are more and > more international gatherings, big and small, training and reunions, is so > wonderful. > > Having co-hosted a WOSonOS in Florida with a wonderful gang of University > of South Florida students and others, I know the love that went into the > welcome and the planning. I felt the same from other host countries where I > attended getting a chance to experience their culture through their > preparation, feeling the anticipatory joy they had in receiving us. It was > in those little touches that I felt it most, local foods, the Open Space > posters in their language, their help as to where to stay (so appreciated > when I was going to a foreign country) and their recommendations on > restaurants or perhaps a few places to visit. No one could argue that some > of these things have nothing to do with Open Space, nor are they required > but I would never want to deprive the hosts of making us feel special and > welcome through those littles touches. At the same time, it can be just as > simple as the way Harrison describes it. I totally love those too. > > In our case, the preparations included a few training events and a > community Open Space a few months before WOSonOS. All of this seeded an > open space way of doing and being that continues to sprout in so many > surprising ways years later in the Tampa Bay region and beyond. Most > important of all are the spaces that were opened inside each of us. > > That said, I have always felt that those preparations should never distract > or predetermine what happens in Open Space nor should they be a burden or > put pressure on people to do the same. > > Life is a mix and in the spirit of self-organizing, I think there's room > for less is more and sometimes a bit more than less. Up to the hosts to > decide, there is no right or wrong, better or less. Reminds me of the Law > of 2 Feet. > > I sure hope my two feet take me to Manilla cause I want to walk those > hundred miles so that we can "hold the whole wide world in our hands", > "whistling all the while". In case you missed it, I fell in love with this > video by Sharon Joy Chao. Keep humming it all the time. Whether there in > spirit or in person, we feel your welcome and spirit of invitation! > > https://animoto.com/play/XvXVDcOKXjGo0jb1SkwqGQ > > Suzanne > > Suzanne Daigle > Open Space Facilitator > NuFocus Strategic Group > > FL 941-359-8877 > Cell: 203-722-2009 > www.nufocusgroup.com > [email protected] > Twitter @Daiglesuz > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Eleder_BuM via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hello family! > > I find having a local (yearly or every 2 years) osonos very stimulating. > In the Basque Country we started in 2013 (bOSonOS; I knew in Krakow, that > Berliners had done quite many bOSonOS, too) and we are having quite much > fun. The invitation is always open to everyone. Probably we?ll keep doing > bOSONOS for some years, the local community will grow and, little by little > people from far away will like coming. > > Maybe one day we?ll invite for wosonos. If a good bunch of fellows are > eager to share the task so as everyone can enjoy it. If we one day decide > to invite, I suppose it will be quite simple. Then, if people decide to > come *wosonosing*, great. If not, very fine too (one less thing to take > care of :). > > I love attending the international ones from time to time. Enriching, as > it makes possible meeting many new practitioners, and OS is people, as life > is, too, people -for me, mainly > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1J9d27aA0>-. Krakow was fantastic, as > ever. > > I find myself very comfortable when attending an osonos where 30-70 people > attend. Enough variety and not too overwhelming. More manageable. > > I love knowing that the OS community grows on and on, and we are getting > to have several osonos yearly around the world. This way, when one is > really eager to attend one, the "difficulty" would be on oneself, deciding > "which great party will I attend now"? It seems that something like this is > already happening, great! > > I suppose we take on too much responsibility and work because we assume > that the more people come, the better (And, what about "Whoever comes...?"). > > I find, too, that, specially when international, we tend to take on too > much burden as invitors. For example,... > > > - Does the fact that many people will be coming by plane make it more > difficult for the invitors to manage it? Why? > - The payment issue, ... does it involve too much work? What would be > the cons of just allowing paying cash on the site? > - Is a fancy website really required? Or could we even registrate with > an email an d having attendees fill in a 3 minutes form? > - Does the food standard of the meeting tend to be too "smart", "high > quality",... making it more difficult for the sponsors to hold? Why? > - Is organizing a parallel online wosonos really required? Knowing > that the permanent Wosonos is happening all the time on the OSLIST and > other places online? > - Maybe some of us feel the burden of showing the world "what our > nation is like?..." > > > - *Which other details are the ones that make it specially hard > convening wosonos,* (apart from taking or assuming the decisions on > how to manage language diversity)*?* > > Having had so many wars all around the world for centuries,...Maybe it > puts an extra psychological burden on the invitors, wherever they live? > Maybe we tend to make a special effort to make it clear all over the world > that "we are lovely people":)? > > > Regarding the decision on how to decide "where next wosonos"? What > are the special features of wosonos? Maybe that you?ll usually meet there > more os-nicks than in a regular osonos (= that it?s bigger)? maybe that > you?ll meet with people of a wider part of the planet (= that it feels more > diverse)? Perhaps knowing that there are many people that repeat the > experience during years and special bonds appear, and you can get to > know/become more part of this big family? > > I like the original spirit and I find that we could make it that simple > now too,... > > *"Some nice soul just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar > inclinations, but different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered > the following year. No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential > arrangements were made."* > > > I assume that whoever invites is full of passion and able to host us in > OS. And that OS, it?ll always be the same and it?ll be also very different > each time. > > In fact it?s the people coming, the participants, who make the OS > experience. > > In an osonos, a specially high percentage of participants know it, we are > the ones that know it best :)! So why do we care so much (I feel) about who > the invitors+facilitators are and sometimes seem to evaluate if they are > really prepared to hold the event? > > I hope this chaotic and disperse ideas add something to the conversation. > > Enjoy life! > > Eleder > > > 2015-09-30 22:42 GMT+02:00 Michael Herman via OSList < > [email protected]>: > > thanks for raising these questions, pernilla. what you're proposing in > terms of people (rather than countries!) coming forward at the beginning of > the gathering makes great sense to me. these invitations can be offered at > any time, of course, including a week or a month before the wosonos > gathering time. if our tradition were to evolve in that direction, there > could be some commenting on that in advance of the gathering. > > at the same time, the thing that makes for the pressure and scarcity and > overall un-OS feeling of this situation isn't really a question of when the > invites are offered, but that we have developed this habit of having only > one of these gatherings at once, or one per year, or more specifically that > we designate just one as *the* world osonos, even though nordic and haitian > and camden and oz folks and some other have had significant series of > osonos gatherings. > > i really like the idea that these things could happen on several > continents at once, so the wosonos had multiple sites. progress of tools > like qiqochat offer interesting possibilities of being able to easily > bumblebee across oceans. we've also been growing a tradition of spinning > these things up into major productions, perhaps drifting some from the > simple power of our core practice. if we met in more places at once and > traveled shorter distances, maybe the hosts would feel less pressure to > "work too hard" an planning and organizing these things? > > what if the wosonos could evolve in the direction of a kind of > world-around OS carnival/retreat/learning exchange week? many invites, > many parties, i mean working sessions? > > michael > > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > http://MichaelHerman.com > http://OpenSpaceWorld.org > > Pernilla ? It always amazes me how simple things complexify and > happenstantial acts suddenly become ?intricate tradition.? > > > > Back in the day, long ages ago, having an Open Space on Open Space > (OSONOS) seemed like a fun thing to do. I think it took me all of 4-5 > hours (total) to organize it, and the ?fee? for attendance was $25. > Actually, truth to tell, I did charge something like $200 for the first one > on the grounds that there was some value added on my part. But after the > first one, when it became quite clear that I really didn?t do a thing... we > got back to something reasonable. That was $25 to cover Post-its, magic > markers, News Print, etc. And when it came to figuring out where it was > going to ?happen? next ? the process was indeed elaborate. Some nice soul > just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar inclinations, but > different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered the following year. > No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential arrangements were > made. > > > > I don?t know when or how, but things started to drag on. I am sure a lot > of folks didn?t see it the same way I did, but I have to confess that I > found my two feet working if the discussion of ?next place? lasted more > than about 10 minutes... being a person of very short attention span. I > have been to most OSONOS?s and loved every one. But a few years ago it did > seem to me that we were working much too hard. It also seemed that having > *THE* (W)OSONOS was somehow a strangely competitive situation. Definitely > working too hard! > > > > As far as I was concerned anyone, anywhere should invite whomsoever to > wherever. OSONOS all over! And just to make the point I tried two such > things in Camden Maine. OSONOS-by-the-Sea, I called it. I think I broke my > record when it came to organizing time. If I said 3 hours, that would be > stretching it. We were filled out in about 48 hours and the fee was $25, > most of which I gave to Lisa for her good work. When it came to > accommodations, I just provided the website of the Chamber of Commerce, and > suggested that anybody who was coming might check it out and find a nice > bed/meal/front porch. A local parish let us have the use of their Hall (for > a small fee) ? and we were in business. Actually the fee that they proposed > was so ridiculously low that I doubled it ? and we still gave most of the > money to Lisa! Go figure. > > > > Maybe it is catching? I notice that Andrew Rixon is welcoming folks to > Melbourne and I am looking forward to joining Mrs. Song and friends in > Beijing shortly. And then of course Manila is upcoming. And what?s > happening in Sweden? > > > > This seems to have gone on for a bit. And I do have a bottom line: If it > ain?t fun, don?t do it. And if you are working too hard, that definitely > begins to cut into the fun. So Pernilla, in an odd sort of way, I just want > to get back to basics ? Would that be tradition? Make it fun. Make it > simple. Open Space wherever you can, and amazing things always happen. The > more the merrier!!!! > > > > Harrison > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Heft - via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > How wonderful, your invitation, in all its richness, Pernilla. > > Another two things I would like to add: > > 1) As always, for any team interested in hosting a WOSonOS for a future > year, I have a growing living letter of lessons-learned - gathered wisdom > from past host teams, that has been growing since 2001 and that I happily > offer to whoever wishes to contact me. My request is that if you, dear > reader, are thinking ?oh that is something I / we will ask Lisa for? then > please wait until a few weeks from now, as I will in a few weeks update it > with the latest Host Team?s lessons-learned. > > And 2) As has happened at several years in the past, including at our > recent WOSonOS - you as a Host Team / Host Team representative do not have > to be physically present at a WOSonOS in order to invite. Several of us > have over the years acted as representatives for teams wishing to invite > who were not able to physically make it. And you can make us do whatever > you like, to represent you ! > > Looking forward to the conversation, > Lisa > > > On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Pernilla Luttropp via OSList < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi all! > At the inspiring WOSONOS in Krak?w there were some learning > conversations on how this community goes about when expressing and > accepting invitations from countries/places to host the upcoming WOSONOSes. > > In the big circle there were voices that expressed some confusion and > discomfort with the process. Others said that whatever happened, they would > trust the process. There was also the mentioning of ?traditions? and the > ways things are usually done at a WOSONOS. And the reminder that traditions > are made in every single now and ?Whatever happens is the only thing that > could have?. > > > *If you are new to WOSONOS *This is how it?s usually done (I think): > the countries that wish to host the next WOSONOS makes an invitation at the > closing circle of the WOSONOS and the participants are free to accept any > of the invitations. The process of accepting the invitation is sometimes > done by some kind of ?voting? procedure in order to agree on one place. > There is often someone who reminds everybody that the only way to ?vote? in > Open Space is by applying ?The law of mobility?. There is no need to only > have one WOSONOS, there could be multiple since ?Wherever it happens is the > right place?. > > > *My view *I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? > or to ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space. One of the > beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own engagement. > If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same direction, > eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge. > If a group decides on voting there are many good methods and it?s of > outmost importance for those present to understand what they are about to > do, in order to make an informed decision. Is it a majority decision? How > many is the majority? What happens if some vote no? Is it possible to have > a ballot vote? Is it the role of the facilitator to sum it up and make the > final decision? In my view, we can only express our appreciation for the > invitation at the Open Space, offer help if needed and make use of the law > of mobility. > > > *An invitation *This is an invitation to try something else and maybe > to let go of a ?tradition?. What if we opened up at the beginning of the > process in order to see how it self organizes at the end? > There seems to be something unclear about the ?tradition? on how to get > information about who is inviting and why. If that information were > transparent from the very start of the WOSONOS, it might enable more > dialogue with the inviting hosts and between the hosts. > > The countries/places that wish to host a future WOSONOS could post this > on the OSLIST and Facebook and send a gentle reminder a few weeks before > the upcoming WOSONOS. The inviting hosts would then be posted on a flip > chart at the WOSONOS and announced as a session when creating the bulletin > board or at the evening news. As always there is the opportunity to add > places, sessions and news announcements up until the closing circle, both > on the spot and via other ways of communicating. This would make it easier > for everyone to approach the hosts, express their delight or ask clarifying > questions. It would also enable the hosts (or their representatives) to > come together in a session and find out how they would like to do the > invitations in the closing circle. Maybe some will wait until next year? > Maybe multiple WOSONOSes in one year? Maybe in different continents at the > same time? Maybe with different themes/urgent questions? Let?s embrace > chaos and see what emerges! Or ?Whatever happens is the only thing that > could have?. > > Since the closing circle have a more definite dead line than ?When it is > over it is over?, due to flights and other time restrictions, this > prolonged invitation process will open up time for more dialogues and > invitations. > But then again, as said in the closing circle in Krak?w, there is > nothing like a good mess in order to learn something new J > > Maybe it has been tried before and in that case I?m interested to know > how it worked or didn?t work. > > Greetings from Sweden! > Pernilla > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/9a5165ea/attachment-0001.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > ------------------------------ > > End of OSList Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2 > *************************************
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