draft-ietf-karp-threats-reqs-01.txt (sec 2.1) on-path/in scope attack-actions 

- how much it's real and applicable for RPs?
- LAN: is replay a possibility with changed SRC

Thanks,
Uma
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:45 PM
To: Uma Chunduri
Cc: Bhatia, Manav (Manav); Joel M. Halpern; [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [karp] [OSPF] Mechanism to protect OSPFv2 authentication from IP 
Layer Issues

Hi,

I find this interesting. If a packet is modified so that it is dropped it could 
very well be dropped by the router itself.

Thanks,
Vishwas

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Uma Chunduri <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please see in-line:
>
>>>Hi Uma,
>
>>>The reason I did just the source address was because that is the only 
>>>vulnerability identified till date and is extremely simple to implement with 
>>>no operational/computational overhead.
>
> **IF** MitM can happen and some body can change the SRC address- it's quite 
> simple to make the receiver drop OSPF packet by changing other fields of the 
> IP header.
> I definitely feel it's better to protect complete IP header if at all it's 
> attempted. One way could be with the new Autype - calculate message digest on 
> IPHeader(nonmutable)+OSPF+etc..(RFC 2328 - D.4.3 6(c)).
>
> Thanks,
> Uma
>
>>>However, if the WG thinks that it makes sense for us to cover all the 
>>>nonmutable fields of the IP header, then that too can be done.
>
>>>Cheers, Manav
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Uma Chunduri [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10.52 PM
>> To: Bhatia, Manav (Manav); Joel M. Halpern
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: [karp] [OSPF] Mechanism to protect OSPFv2 authentication 
>> from IP Layer Issues
>>
>> If this has to be protected - I guess it's better to do the complete 
>> IP header (non-mutable) than only the SRC address.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Uma
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
>> Of Bhatia, Manav (Manav)
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:53 PM
>> To: Joel M. Halpern
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [karp] [OSPF] Mechanism to protect OSPFv2 authentication 
>> from IP Layer Issues
>>
>> Hi Joel,
>>
>> [clipped]
>>
>> > It seems
>> > to me that
>> > if an attacker is present on enough links for this to be a problem, 
>> > then one has a lot more issues than just the preservation of 
>> > adjacencies.  In fact, using this attack calls immediate
>> attention to
>> > the presence of the attacker.  (It is not like a remote DoS or DDoS 
>> > where the attack can continue once the victim is aware.  network 
>> > operators will be able to track this VERY fast.)
>>
>> Yup, I agree. However, it is a cheap solution to a vulnerability that 
>> exists and which has been mentioned in multiple documents.
>>
>> This attack vector also appears to be in scope as per 
>> draft-ietf-karp-threats-reqs-01.txt (sec 2.1).
>>
>> Additionally you could also look at the section 3 of the above 
>> document which says the following:
>>
>> 20.  In most routing protocols (OSPF, ISIS, BFD, RIP, etc), all
>>      speakers share the same key on a broadcast segment.  Possession
>>      of the key itself is used for identity validation and no other
>>      identity check is used.  This opens a window for an attack where
>>      the sender can masquerade as some other neighbor.  Routing
>>      protocols SHOULD thus use some other information besides the key
>>      to validate a neighbor.  One could look at
>>      [I-D.ietf-opsec-routing-protocols-crypto-issues] for details on
>>      such attacks.
>>
>> 21.  Routing protocols that rely on the IP header (or information
>>      beyond the routing protocol payload) to identify the neighbor
>>      which originated the packet must either protect the IP header or
>>      provide some other means to identify the neighbor.
>>      [I-D.ietf-opsec-routing-protocols-crypto-issues] describes some
>>      attacks that are based on this.
>>
>> This solution attempts to fix the above mentioned issues. If we think 
>> that such attacks are NOT in scope of KARP then we need to remove 
>> them from the document lest folks spend time working on them.
>>
>> >
>> > Second, how would this be deployed?  It requests a
>>
>> This is an easy part and can be trivially taken care of once we 
>> decide that its indeed a problem that we need work on.
>>
>> > modification in the
>> > sender and receiver behavior for authentication.  Is your
>> assumption
>> > that this would be handled like a key change?  First you
>> upgrade every
>> > router on the LAN to be able to receive this, then you turn
>> on sending
>> > it on the LAN?  It seems to me that in terms of diagnosing 
>> > communication failures one needs to be able to tell from
>> packet traces
>> > which behavior is actually being used.
>>
>> We could define a new authentication type, say 3, which would 
>> indicate that the new mechanism (i.e. where Apad is not a constant 
>> but derived from source IP of the packet) is being used.
>>
>> >
>> > The third question is actually the most important.  Given that 
>> > operators would ahve to choose to enable this new behavior,
>> is there
>> > any indication that they would do so?  I have heard reports
>> that some
>> > operators have started turning off IGP authentication, or using it 
>> > only as a stronger packet checksum.  In either case, this
>> does not add
>> > value for those operators.
>>
>> While I agree that some operators use authentication only for 
>> stronger checksum there are some that care for security. I also agree 
>> that its not very simple to launch these attacks, however, the idea 
>> behind this draft was as I had explained earlier - it fixes a 
>> potential issue at zero (implementation, computational and operational) cost 
>> that exists.
>> My assumption was that if we are repeatedly citing a vulnerability 
>> then there is a willingness to fix it (see above).
>>
>> Cheers, Manav
>>
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