Hi Fred,

On Jul 25, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:

> 
> On Jul 25, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
> 
>> Hi Fred,
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Adrian,
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> This sort of erratum in a MIB module bothers me.
>>>>> The trouble is that it changes the compilable content of the module, if 
>>>>> not the
>>>>> key parts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, the order of process is:
>>>>> - Is the erratum correct?
>>>>> - Is a fix *required* (i.e., is the module unusable without it?)
>>>>> - Can the erratum be held for a revision of the module?
>>>>> - How urgent is such a revision?
>>>> 
>>>> Given that RFC 1850 has been around for over 17 years and there are many 
>>>> existing implementations, I would suffice it to say that this correction 
>>>> would not in and of itself warrant a revision.
>>>> OTOH, there are problems with the OSPFv3 MIB ranges that should be 
>>>> corrected with a revision.
>>> 
>>> Can we identify that set of issues? If we can list them along with 
>>> appropriate modifications, the paperwork exercise isn't all that hard 
>>> (apart from dealing with the MIB Doctors).
>> 
>> At a minimum, we need to fix the fact that ospfv3RestartAge and 
>> ospfv3NbrRestartHelperAge are defined as Ospfv3UpToRefreshIntervalTC which 
>> is  Unsigned32 (1..1800). This poses a problem of what to return when these 
>> MIB variables are not applicable since 0 is invalid.
>> We may find some other additions and corrections now that we have some 
>> implementation experience. Speaking as OSPF WG co-chair, we'd be happy if 
>> you would be willing to take on this task.
> 
> If the object is inapplicable, why would it not be treated as if it didn't 
> exist in the scenario? On a GET, return noSuchObject, and on a GET-NEXT or 
> GET-BULK, skip it? Both objects are read-only. Do we have an erratum on these?

This is not an option since these are mandatory objects in the MIB compliance. 


> 
> If you want to return a magic value such as zero, that's a change to the TC 
> plus some text to the effect that "zero is only used in" this case. There are 
> a number of other objects that use the TC; if you don't see a need to change 
> them (and you probably really don't want to be able to configure, to name 
> one, ospfv3IfRetransInterval to zero), we're better off simply redefining the 
> two objects as Integer32(0..1800) or defining a new TC and changing the 
> object definitions to that. This suggestion might make the MIB Doctors crazy; 
> as I understand it, the data on the wire will be Integer32(0..1800) no matter 
> what, so the TC change is cosmetic. I would assume "there be dragons here" 
> until someone from MIB-land tells me otherwise.
> 
> Spinning a MIB triggers a lot of reviews; it would be good to know who has 
> implemented this and what their experience has been, from the perspective of 
> taking RFC 5643 to Draft Standard 
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-4.1.2) or Internet Standard (RFC 
> 6410).

I agree but this change cannot be fixed with an errata. 


> 
> Looking on the web, I found at least two implementations, one of which is 
> read-only and doesn't implement 26 of the objects.
> 
>    ospfv3HostAddressType
>    ospfv3HostAddress
>    ospfv3HostMetric
>    ospfv3HostRowStatus
>    ospfv3HostAreaID
>    ospfv3CfgNbrTable
>    ospfv3ExitOverflowInterval
>    ospfv3ReferenceBandwidth
>    ospfv3RestartSupport
>    ospfv3RestartInterval
>    ospfv3RestartStrictLsaChecking
>    ospfv3RestartStatus
>    ospfv3RestartAge
>    ospfv3RestartExitReason
>    ospfv3NotificationEnable
>    ospfv3StubRouterSupport
>    ospfv3StubRouterAdvertisement
>    ospfv3DiscontinuityTime
>    ospfv3RestartTime
>    ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorRole
>    ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorState
>    ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorStabInterval
>    ospfv3AreaNssaTranslatorEvents
>    ospfv3AreaTEEnabled
>    ospfv3IfMetricValue
>    ospfv3IfDemandNbrProbe
> 
> As I understand it, going to Draft Standard or Internet Standard (are we on 
> the 2026 or 6410 model?) means removal/deprecation of anything we can't show 
> multiple interoperable implementation of. Really?
> 
> 
> What I found:
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/crs/software/crs_r4.2/routing/configuration/guide/b_routing_cg42crs_chapter_0100.html#concept_0B3C41DB4B9C4BA39FB2B1BDA0A777CD
> 
> http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos/topics/reference/standards/snmp-std-mibs-junos-nm.html
>  (search for "5643").
> 
> I'm not sure about Quagga's status. Google.com reports mostly that Quagga 
> doesn't implement the MIB, but I found a reference at code.google.com to the 
> effect that Google has developed an open source implementation; the code the 
> link takes me to is for GNU Zebra.
> 
> I think we would need to know who else has implemented it and what they have 
> done with it. And to be honest, I personally would like to hear a little more 
> "use in anger" before getting all revved up on this.

I can poll the implementation that reported the problem. I suspect it was just 
a matter of supplanting their MIB tools to allow 0 to be returned. 



> 
> 
> My suggestion: At this particular meeting, while I have a topic I would like 
> to kick around with Jari and others on the zospf-redux model he's working on, 
> I am scheduled into opsawg at the same time as ospf at IETF 84, and I don't 
> think the MIB is ready to have a f2f discussion on. It's suggest that we kick 
> it around on the mailing list with a view to f2f discussion at IETF 85 or 86.

We can start another thread. However, I believe we'll end up with the same 
answer.

Thanks,
Acee 



> 
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> - Do we have candidates to revise the document?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Adrian (speaking as an AD who does MIB modules a bit, but not the AD for 
>>>>> OSPF)
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Acee Lindem [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>>>> Sent: 24 July 2012 15:51
>>>>>> To: Joan Cucchiara
>>>>>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
>>>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
>>>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4750 (3292)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Joan,
>>>>>> If you have a minute could you comment as to:
>>>>>> 1. Is the subject Errata correct?
>>>>>> 2. If so, does it have any consequence other than editorial content? It
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> appear to me that any MIB tools have complained about it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 23, 2012, at 5:21 AM, RFC Errata System wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC4750,
>>>>>>> "OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>> You may review the report below and at:
>>>>>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4750&eid=3292
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Type: Editorial
>>>>>>> Reported by: Michael Kirkham <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Section: 5
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Original Text
>>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>> ospfTrapCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
>>>>>>>   STATUS       obsolete
>>>>>>>   DESCRIPTION
>>>>>>>      "The compliance statement."
>>>>>>>   MODULE       -- this module
>>>>>>>   MANDATORY-GROUPS { ospfTrapControlGroup }
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   GROUP       ospfTrapControlGroup
>>>>>>>   DESCRIPTION
>>>>>>>      "This group is optional but recommended for all
>>>>>>>      OSPF systems."
>>>>>>>   ::= { ospfTrapCompliances 1 }
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Corrected Text
>>>>>>> --------------
>>>>>>> ospfTrapCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
>>>>>>>   STATUS       obsolete
>>>>>>>   DESCRIPTION
>>>>>>>      "The compliance statement."
>>>>>>>   MODULE       -- this module
>>>>>>>   GROUP       ospfTrapControlGroup
>>>>>>>   DESCRIPTION
>>>>>>>      "This group is optional but recommended for all
>>>>>>>      OSPF systems."
>>>>>>>   ::= { ospfTrapCompliances 1 }
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Notes
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> ospfTrapControlGroup is listed both in the MANDATORY-GROUPS clause and 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a GROUP clause. Per RFC 2580, Conformance Statements for SMIv2 (brackets
>>>>>> added to indicate pertinent rule):
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "5.4.2.  Mapping of the GROUP clause
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The GROUP clause, which need not be present, is repeatedly used to
>>>>>>> name each object and notification group which is conditionally
>>>>>>> mandatory for compliance to the MIB module.  The GROUP clause can
>>>>>>> also be used to name unconditionally optional groups.  [A group named
>>>>>>> in a GROUP clause must be absent from the correspondent MANDATORY-
>>>>>>> GROUPS clause.]"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is listed in both clauses in RFC 1850 as well (which RFC 4750 
>>>>>>> obsoletes).
>>>>> It is
>>>>>> STATUS current in RFC 1850 and STATUS obsolete in 4750; however, 
>>>>>> obsolete or
>>>>>> not, it is not legal according to SMI rules.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Instructions:
>>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>>>>>>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>>>>>>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>>>>>>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>> RFC4750 (draft-ietf-ospf-mib-update-11)
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Title               : OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base
>>>>>>> Publication Date    : December 2006
>>>>>>> Author(s)           : D. Joyal, Ed., P. Galecki, Ed., S. Giacalone, 
>>>>>>> Ed., R.
>>>>> Coltun, F.
>>>>>> Baker
>>>>>>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>>>>>>> Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
>>>>>>> Area                : Routing
>>>>>>> Stream              : IETF
>>>>>>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> The ignorance of how to use new knowledge stockpiles exponentially.
>>> - Marshall McLuhan
>>> 
>> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> The ignorance of how to use new knowledge stockpiles exponentially.
>   - Marshall McLuhan
> 

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