Hi Mark,
Sorry for the delay and taking this discussion to the list. I'm hesitant to 
create a new P2MP interface variation and make it the default auto-configured 
type when the broadcast interface is the most common. 
I am very familiar with scenario you are attempting to handle is the case where 
neither router port is up until you connect them since your topology is 
back-to-back rather than thru a switched infra-structure. Hence, you are always 
subject to the WAIT time prior to prior DR election. 
My answer would be to add a section covering this case and reducing the WAIT 
time to a smaller number. I'd recommend 15 seconds but allow for 
implementations to go lower if they believed their market demanded it (at the 
expense of a higher likelyhood of DR recalculation). 
Thanks,
Acee 

On Sep 27, 2012, at 5:38 AM, Mark ZZZ Smith wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> A clarification. The form of point-to-multipoint operation I am suggesting is 
> where multicast hellos are used to discover neighbors rather than having to 
> configure them. Cisco routers have this capability, and I'd assumed that the 
> OSPF RFCs allowed for this combination of neighbor discovery and then 
> neighbor adjacency establishment. However, I've looked at the OSPF RFCs 
> today, and they don't seem to specifically mention it, although don't seem to 
> preclude it either.
> 
> Regards,
> Mark.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Mark ZZZ Smith <[email protected]>
>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; 
>> "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012 6:30 AM
>> Subject: A thought about draft-acee-ospf-ospfv3-autoconfig and Human 
>> Computer Interaction (HCI)
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think OSPF is a good protocol for use as a routing protocol in a home 
>> environment, in particular as I think it could also be used as a service 
>> distribution protocol (e.g. printer names etc.), similar to how Novell used 
>> their IPX version of IS-IS (NLSP).
>> 
>> However, I think it would be better to use point-to-multipoint mode on the 
>> interfaces rather than traditional DR/BDR mode. The reason is because of 
>> Human 
>> Computer Interaction concerns. I'm not an expert in HCI, however I am aware 
>> that humans will only tolerate apparent inactivity for no more than 3 to 5 
>> seconds, before they decided that nothing is or has happened and start 
>> taking 
>> actions to attempt to fix it (with the common action with low end CPE being 
>> to 
>> reboot it). To address this, a device or piece of software either has to 
>> indicate progress of some form (e.g. move a percent complete bar), or 
>> complete 
>> the task within 3 to 5 seconds.
>> 
>> Using the DR/BDR interface mode, and leaving the timers as defaults, end 
>> users 
>> of CPE are going to have to wait for up to 40 seconds before OSPF has 
>> completed 
>> establishing an adjacency. This will be far to long unless the CPE indicates 
>> progress such as flashing a progress LED periodically. Even then I think 
>> such a 
>> long delay doesn't really provide much value.
>> 
>> I think it would be better to use a point-to-multipoint interface mode for 
>> OSPF, 
>> avoiding a DR/BDR elections, and to set the hello interval to something like 
>> 2 
>> seconds, and perhaps a dead interval 6 seconds. Although this would mean 
>> OSPF 
>> routes would maintain a full mesh of adjacencies with each other on the same 
>> segment, there are unlikely to be enough that it causes any load issue on 
>> CPE as 
>> CPE has much more powerful CPUs and much more RAM than routers did when OSPF 
>> was 
>> developed. 
>> 
>> (I remember there was a recommendation from Cisco in the early 1990s to have 
>> no 
>> more than 50 routers and 200 links in an OSPF area, and that was with Cisco 
>> 2500s, using a 20 Mhz Motorola 68020 CPU and having 512 KB of RAM. CPUs in 
>> CPE 
>> these days are at least 200 and more likely 400Mhz, and have 16 to 32 MB of 
>> RAM. 
>> They should have no trouble maintaining a full mesh of OSPF adjacencies 
>> between 
>> quite a large number of OSPF neighbors on a link. For 
>> example, http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-mr3020, which costs around 
>> US$50.)
>> 
>> HTH,
>> Mark.
>> 

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