Hello, On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 9:12 AM Nadav Har'El <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 5:30 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> As follows: >> OSv booted on KVM- >> 1 core: 21.18s >> 2: 12.25 >> 4: 7.08 >> 8: 4.95s >> 16: 6.59s >> 32: 9.28s >> >> Now on just regular Ubuntu it is as follows: >> 1: 15.22s >> 2: 9.64s >> 4: 6.4s >> 8: 3.6s >> 16: 2.93s >> 32: 2.21s >> >> > While *ideally* a unikernel like OSv could provide better performance than > traditional kernels because of things like lower system call and context > switch overhead, less locking, and other things, there are many things > working *against* this ideal, and resulting in disappointing performance > comparisons: > > 1. *Most modern high-performance software has evolved on Linux, and > evolved with its limitations in mind.* > So for example, if Linux's context switches are slow, application > developers start writing software which lowers the number of context > switches - even to the point of just one thread per core. If Linux's system > calls are slow, application developers start to batch many operations in > one system call, starting with epoll() some 20 years ago, and culminating > with io_uring recently introduced to Linux. With these applications, it is > pointless to speed up system calls or context switches, because these take > a tiny percentage of the runtime. > > *2. They say a chain is as weak as its weakest link.* > This is even more true in many-core performance (due to Amdahl's law). > Complex software uses many many OS features. If OSv speeds up context > switches and system calls and networking (say) by 10%, but then some other > thing the software does is 2 times slower than in Linux, it is very > possible that OSv's overall performance will be *lower* than Linux. > Unfortunately, this is exactly what we saw a few years ago when ScyllaDB > (then "Cloudius Systems") was actively benchmarking and developing OSv: > Many benchmarks we tried were initially slower in OSv than in Linux. When > we profiled what happened, we discovered that although many things in OSv > were better than Linux, one (or a few) specific things in OSv which were > significantly efficient in OSv than in Linux. This could be some silly > filesystem feature we never thought was very important but was very > frequently used in this application, it could be that OSv's scheduler > wasn't as clever as Linux's to handle this specific use case. It could be > that some specific algorithm was lock-free in Linux but uses locks in OSv, > so becomes increasingly worse on OSv with the more CPUs you have. The main > point is that if an application uses 100 different OS features - Linux had > hundreds of developers optimizing *each* of these 100 features for years. > The handful OSv developers focused on specific features and made clever > improvements to them - but the rest are probably less optimized than Linux. > > *3. Many-core development is hot* > When the OSv project started 7 years ago, it was already becoming clear > that many-core machines were the future, but it wasn't as obvious as it is > today. So OSv could get some early wins by developing some clever > lock-reducing improvements to its networking stack and other places. But > the Linux developers are not idiots, and spent the last 7 years improving > Linux's scalability on many-core systems. And they went further than OSv > ever got - they support NUMA configurations, multi-queue network cards, and > a plethora of new ideas for improving scalability on many core systems. On > modern many-core, multi-socket, multi-queue-network-card systems, there is > a high chance that Linux will be faster than OSv. > > > *4. Posix API is slow* > This is related to the first issue (of software having evolved on Linux), > but this time for more "traditional" software and not really > state-of-the-art applications using the latest fads like io_uring. This > traditional software is using the Posix API - filesystem, networking, > memory handling etc. that was designed decades ago, and make various > problematic guarantees. Just as one example, the possibility to poll the > same file descriptor from many threads requires a lock every time this file > descriptor is used. This slows down both Linux and OSv, but not giving OSv > any advantage over Linux, because both need to correctly support the same > slow API. Or even the contrary - Linux and its hundreds of developers > continue to come up with clever tricks for each of these details (e.g., use > RCU instead of locks for file descriptors) while OSv's few (today, *very* > few) developers only had time to optimize a few specific cases. > > So it's no longer clear that if raw performance is your goal, OSv is the > right direction. OSv can still be valuable for other reasons - smaller > self-contained images, smaller code base, faster boot, etc. For raw > performance, our company (ScyllaDB) went on a different direction: The > Seastar library (http://nadav.harel.org.il/seastar/, > https://github.com/scylladb/seastar) allows writing high-performance > applications on regular Linux, by avoiding or minimizing all the features > that makes Linux slow (like context switches) or cause scalability problems > on modern many-core machines. Initially Seastar ran on both Linux and OSv > (with identical performance, because it avoided the heavy parts of both), > but unfortunately today it is using too many new Linux features which don't > work on OSv - so it no longer runs on OSv. > > >> >> To your networking statement, is there a way to disable setting up the >> networking environment? My benchmark does not require any form of an >> internet connection. >> >> In the event anyone is curious as to what I am bench marking, it is the >> Splash-2 apps / kernels with a rather large problem size being solved. In >> this benchmark it is a 2048x2048 matrix >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "OSv Development" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/osv-dev/10cb923a-c7b3-476c-92cd-dd9a6db0c7b9%40googlegroups.com >> . > > This is a very interesting analysis. I wonder if you always want to use Linux as the OS for your guests. I played a bit with microservices and I had the impression that this may be a use-case in which you could try with something different than Linux as guest. For example, if you want to do continuous deployment of microservices, your guest has to boot fast. This requirement may not be easily achieved by using Linux. This is just an example and I know some people that they are booting Linux very fast. Matias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSv Development" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/osv-dev/CA%2BdKekCGBUE0BL1cuFySg77ZK49tES%3DcwjAu%3D5SqBQ6%2Bt8iVDQ%40mail.gmail.com.
