Yes, because in Europe it is produced using Nuclear power, and in Asia by burning coal. Of course that's good.
>-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Saputelli >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:47 PM >To: Open Topic Forum >Subject: Re: [OT] Re: [PEDA] Lead free - *was* re design > > >no one has mentioned (lately) >the significantly higher energy use for lead free (higher temps) > >is this good for the environment ? > >also i just got a warning in the mail about the much higher >toxicity of using lead free wire solder for hand soldering due >to the higher temperature making worse fumes from the more >active flux (they were selling fume extractors and had some >back up data) > >according to a PC design mag editorial lead consumption >worldwide for electronics is 0.5% of total lead consumption > >isn't this beginning to look a bit silly ? > >they also estimated the cost of converstion to be 100 billion dollars > >is this being wisely spent? > >car batteries are exempt and i recall a figure of something >like 50000 tons dumped into landfill every year (don't hold me >to that ! i couldn't find the clipping :) ) in any case i >wonder how many computers = 1 car battery ? >very very many i suspect > > >Dennis Saputelli > > >_______________________________________________________________________ >Integrated Controls, Inc. Tel: 415-647-0480 EXT 107 >2851 21st Street Fax: 415-647-3003 >San Francisco, CA 94110 www.integratedcontrolsinc.com > > >Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >> Hi, Indrek: >> >> >>>>I enjoy nature and green spaces as much as anyone, but some of the >>>>greenies' ideas of conservation are scientifically unsound. This >>>>lead-free solder is one of them. >>> >>>And your reasoning is? Assume that CRT's and Pb-batteries >are properly >>>recycled. >> >> >> My reasoning is that lead-free solder joints are not as >reliable over the >> long term as lead-full solder joints. We won't know the >real facts on this >> until lead-free has been in actual field use for several >more years. Early >> indications do not look favorable, from what I have seen and >read. What >> good are lead-free products if you have to produce 3 of them >to get the same >> operational lifetime as 1 lead-full product? Then there are >the costs of >> service calls, etc. Yes, my CRT's and batteries are recycled, their >> cost-benefit ratio for recycling is good since they contain >large amounts of >> lead. >> >> On a personal level, I recycle cans, bottles, and paper. >Tallahassee has a >> good recycling program, and I participate in it. I try to >select appliances >> and computers that are energy efficient. I use fluorescent >lighting in some >> of my fixtures, to save energy. I don't drive an SUV. I do >indulge myself >> an occasional drive in my huge gas guzzler 1975 Cadillac, >but most of the >> time it's in storage. So, I think I'm doing as good or >better than most >> greenies when it comes to environmental concerns. Am I >convinced global >> warming is caused by human activity - no. Do I try to be a >good steward of >> the Earth - yes. So, if you think I am just another care-free >> environment-destroying capitalist pig, think again. >> >> >>>One of the long term benefits of Pb-free movement that I see, would >>>eventually be higher reliability of products. Less solder >bridging and >>>stronger solder joints anyone? >> >> >> How do we magically get to those long term benefits? If the >metallurgy >> doesn't work that way, we can't! >> >> Why do you think the EU directive exempts automotive, >medical, aerospace, >> and military devices? Are those less worthy of being environmentally >> friendly? Could it be that failure is not an option for >those categories? >> Could it be that it is expected that your crappy video game >or cellphone >> will fail just after warranty? After all, that's what drives the >> consumption machine. And you will feel good about buying >it's replacement, >> because it has a pretty green label that reads "lead-free". >> >> >>>Would average Chinese assembly house start using Pb-free >solders if they >>>are not mandatory? I doubt. >> >> >> What's wrong with that? It's economics at work. Sometimes >there are good >> reasons to override economic concerns. Lead-free solder >isn't one of them. >> >> >>>>Let's fill up the landfill with failed lead-free devices, that's >>>>environmentally responsible...NOT! >>> >>>That's the whole concept of recycling -- used devices should >not go to >>>landfills. >> >> >> Wait, I'm confused, are we talking about recycling PCB >assemblies, or making >> them environmentally benign so we can bury them in the >ground? Pick one or >> the other! If we are going to recycle PCBs, we can use >lead-full solder, >> and there is no need whatsoever for lead-free solder. If we >are going to >> discard PCBs, the argument for lead-free has at least some >worthiness for >> debate. Why should I avoid putting lead into a device that >will be recycled >> anyway? >> >> Best regards, >> Ivan Baggett >> Bagotronix Inc. >> website: www.bagotronix.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Indrek Rebane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Bagotronix Tech Support" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >"Protel EDA >> Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Lead free re design >> >> >> >>>Hi Ivan, >>> >>>Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >>> >>>>I enjoy nature and green spaces as much as anyone, but some of the >>>>greenies' ideas of conservation are scientifically unsound. This >>>>lead-free solder is one of them. >>> >>>And your reasoning is? Assume that CRT's and Pb-batteries >are properly >>>recycled. >>> >>> >>>>IMO, the worst thing the electronics industry can do to the >>>>environment is to manufacture devices whose lead-free solder joints >>>>fail quickly. >>> >>>One of the long term benefits of Pb-free movement that I see, would >>>eventually be higher reliability of products. Less solder >bridging and >>>stronger solder joints anyone? >>> >>>Would average Chinese assembly house start using Pb-free >solders if they >>>are not mandatory? I doubt. >>> >>> >>>>Let's fill up the landfill with failed lead-free devices, that's >>>>environmentally responsible...NOT! >>> >>>That's the whole concept of recycling -- used devices should >not go to >>>landfills. >>> >>> >>>>What's my solution to pollution? Make stuff that lasts and can be >>>>upgraded by firmware, as much as is practical. If that stuff >>>>contains harmful substances, make it even more reliable so it won't >>>>have to be thrown away in large quantities. >>> >>>Will we see DfR soon? (Design for Recycling). I recommend you to read >>>EFSOT report on effects of Pb-free solder on environment: >>> >> >> >http://www.europeanleadfree.net/POOLED/DOCUMENTS/a110210/EFSOT_ >June_2004.pdf >> >>>You can get quite a lot of info from ELFNET and EFSOT, >>>http://www.europeanleadfree.net/ >>>http://www.efsot-europe.info/ >>> >>>They also have loads of information on tin whisker formation, surface >>>finishes and wetting abilities. >>> >>> >>>>Why will my solution not be adopted by most of the >industry? Because >>>> it disrupts the business models of planned obsolesence, planned >>>>replacement, and forced consumption. >>> >>>Does average teenager need a new and cooler mobile phone? >No. Does she >>>or he want it? Yes. That's where I see the problem. Addiction. >>> >>>Only Pb-free problem I see Protel has is related to >Nanoboard. Packaging >>>waste in relation to recycling is other problem, including totally >>>useless manuals I have never read. Why should I read book if >I have PDF >>>which is easier to read? Thou one could say that ever >increasing system >>>requirements of DXP platform are environmentally inconsiderate. >>> >>>Indrek >>> >>>-- >>> Indrek Rebane | Borthwick-Pignon >>> Electronics Engineer | Tartu Science Park >>> Phone: (+372) 7 302 641 | Riia 185, 51014 Tartu >>> Fax: (+372) 7 383 041 | Estonia >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.bps.co.ee >>> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to the OT discussion forum >> >> To Post messages: >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Unsubscribe and Other Options: >> http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/ot_techservinc.com >> >> Browse or Search Old Archives (2001-2004): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> > > >____________________________________________________________ >You are subscribed to the OT discussion forum > >To Post messages: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Unsubscribe and Other Options: >http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/ot_techservinc.com > >Browse or Search Old Archives (2001-2004): >http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > >Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current): >http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > ____________________________________________________________ You are subscribed to the OT discussion forum To Post messages: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe and Other Options: http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/ot_techservinc.com Browse or Search Old Archives (2001-2004): http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current): http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
