The  discussion  about  Medicare  reimbursement for leisure services has
been  long. I learned from the information that was provided on the list
and by Medicare and appreciate all the input!

However,  I  admit  to being confused because I was under the impression
that  originally  there  was discussion about leisure training not being
reimbursable  but then at the end, the discussion was about 'appropriate
documentation' of underlying components. So, I went back through all the
messages,  pertaining to this topic and extracted relevant comments. The
results  of this process can be found at the end of this message. Before
continuing on, it may be helpful to read those comments.

In  going  back  through  the comments, I'm left with a couple of really
important discussion points.

1.  What  exactly  does  insurance  pay for; treatment or goals? I don't
really  know anymore. Of course, CPT codes are for treatment and that is
how  therapy  is  billed  and  paid.  But the CPT codes are only used to
document  procedures  used  to  obtain goals. So, it seems that Medicare
pays  for  both;  procedures  that  are used to meet medically necessary
goals. Will someone clarify my confusion?

2.  What is it that OT (and PT for that matter) are really doing. Jimmie
suggests  that  Medicare  will  pay  for OT to address underlying issues
which  prevent  someone  from going fishing (or whatever IADL). However,
what  then becomes the goal; fishing or the underlying components needed
to go fishing? If the goal is underlying components, then how is it that
we  can  be sure that the patient can actually go fishing. And to do so,
may require an extended period of treatment, which then of course become
non-payable.  And,  isn't  that what PT claims to do; address underlying
issues  so  that a person can engage in some ADL/IADL? Isn't OT supposed
to  be  about  occupation  and  that occupation is our speciality and if
fishing  is  someone's  occupation  then  aren't  we supposed to address
fishing  and not from just an underlying components perspective but from
a whole perspective?

It  seems  to me that if OT addresses the underlying components required
for  someone  to  do occupation, then there is very little difference in
this type of approach compared to what OT has traditionally be doing for
the  past  20  years! If I write a goal like: "Client will actively flex
left  wrist  to 90 degrees to hold fishing rod", isn't the real goal the
wrist  flexion  and  not the fishing? Now, if fishing is the goal and is
stated:  "Client  will  demonstrate  ability to safely and independently
cast  a  fishing  lure",  then obviously casting is the goal BUT we know
that such goals are not payable.

I think that I have more to write, but I am overwhelmed and confused!

Ron

   ################### EXTRACTED MESSAGES FOLLOW ####################

Shellie>  I  told  her we could work on her balance while making a meal,
Shellie>  etc  but  she  wasn't interested in that. She wants to get out
Shellie>  and plant flowers.

Sheelie>  I  really  struggled  with this. PT could do strengthening and
Sheelie>  balance  training.  I  didn't think an insurance company would
Sheelie>  cover for IADL'S without having more significant problems.

=======================================================================

Ron>  I  don't  think  there's  any  insurance company that will pay for
Ron>  someone to learn to plant flowers!

=======================================================================

Shellie>  I  asked  her  what  she  would like to do better and she kept
Shellie>  returning to the flowers and gardening.

=======================================================================

Jimmie>  Her desire to, "wants to get out and plant flowers" sounds like
Jimmie>  an occupational goal to me.

=======================================================================

Ron>  My  point  is  that  insurance  will  not pay for someone to learn
Ron>  gardening.

=======================================================================

Jimmie>  Again, I disagree!

======================================================================

Jimmie>  It  would  all depend on how you document. If you say I'm going
Jimmie>  to  teach  her  how  to garden, sure you will be denied. On the
Jimmie>  other hand, if you analyze the component processes required for
Jimmie>  the  patient  to  engage  safely  in  her  prior  occupation of
Jimmie>  gardening,  and you document such, you should be reimbursed for
Jimmie>  this training as you would for any other OT treatment.

=======================================================================

Ron>  ALL  interventions  for  which  Medicare  pays  must  be medically
Ron>  necessary.  IMO, gardening is not medically necessary. I don't see
Ron>  anything  that  you quote that clearly indicates Medicare will pay
Ron>  for  gardening,  hunting,  fishing,  rock  climbing, tree scaling,
Ron>  windsurfing, 4-wheeling, skydiving, etc.

=======================================================================

Terrianne>  You're  right  -no  one  would pay you to teach her to plant
Terrianne>  flowers,  BUT  if  you  can  clearly document how her client
Terrianne>  factors,   context,  etc  affect  performance  skills,  then
Terrianne>  describe  how  the  task  demands  (versus naming the actual
Terrianne>  activity)  of the therapeutic occupation are remediating the
Terrianne>  performance issues, you're set.

======================================================================

Jimmie>  Neither  do  you see anything that states they will not pay for
Jimmie>  it.  It  depends on how you document! They will not pay for you
Jimmie>  to  take  the  patient on a hunting trip, but they will pay for
Jimmie>  you   to  assess  and  provide  interventions  to  improve  the
Jimmie>  components of the ability to hunt.

=======================================================================

Ron>  Like I said, there is a line where treatment becomes non-medically
Ron>  necessary.  Neither I nor you now where that line exists! Not even
Ron>  Medicare  knows  the  exact location of that line - it's a case by
Ron>  case situation.

======================================================================










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