On 10/7/22 23:16, Han Zhou wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 12:23 PM Ilya Maximets <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/7/22 20:31, Han Zhou wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 10:24 AM Ilya Maximets <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 10/7/22 10:26, Dumitru Ceara wrote:
>>>>> On 10/7/22 04:03, Han Zhou wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 7:02 AM Dumitru Ceara <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Expand SB.Template_Var records in two stages:
>>>>>>> 1. first expand them to local values in match/action strings
>>>>>>> 2. then reparse the expanded strings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the case when a lflow references a Template_Var also track
>>>>>>> references (similar to the ones maintained for multicast groups,
> address
>>>>>>> sets, port_groups, port bindings).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Dumitru Ceara <[email protected] <mailto:
> [email protected]>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dumitru,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Han,
>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition to the two-stage parsing concerns we are discussing in
> the
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm doing some more targetted performance testing.  I'll update the
>>>>> other thread when I have more data to share.
>>>>>
>>>>>> other thread, I have some minor comments below. The major one is
> whether we
>>>>>> should allow matching hostname or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>  controller/lflow.c          |   59 +++++++-
>>>>>>>  controller/lflow.h          |    1
>>>>>>>  controller/lport.c          |    3
>>>>>>>  controller/ofctrl.c         |    9 +
>>>>>>>  controller/ofctrl.h         |    3
>>>>>>>  controller/ovn-controller.c |  317
>>>>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>  include/ovn/expr.h          |    4 -
>>>>>>>  include/ovn/lex.h           |   14 +-
>>>>>>>  lib/actions.c               |    9 +
>>>>>>>  lib/expr.c                  |   18 ++
>>>>>>>  lib/lex.c                   |   55 +++++++
>>>>>>>  lib/objdep.c                |    1
>>>>>>>  lib/objdep.h                |    1
>>>>>>>  lib/ovn-util.c              |    7 +
>>>>>>>  lib/ovn-util.h              |    3
>>>>>>>  tests/ovn.at <http://ovn.at>                |    2
>>>>>>>  tests/test-ovn.c            |   16 ++
>>>>>>>  utilities/ovn-trace.c       |   26 +++-
>>>>>>>  18 files changed, 512 insertions(+), 36 deletions(-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>>> +struct ed_type_template_vars {
>>>>>>> +    struct local_templates var_table;
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>> +    bool change_tracked;
>>>>>>> +    struct sset new;
>>>>>>> +    struct sset deleted;
>>>>>>> +    struct sset updated;
>>>>>>> +};
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>> +static void
>>>>>>> +template_vars_init(const struct sbrec_template_var_table
> *tv_table,
>>>>>>> +                   const struct sbrec_chassis *chassis,
>>>>>>> +                   struct local_templates *var_table)
>>>>>>> +{
>>>>>>> +    const struct sbrec_template_var *tv;
>>>>>>> +    SBREC_TEMPLATE_VAR_TABLE_FOR_EACH (tv, tv_table) {
>>>>>>> +        if (chassis_name_equals(tv->chassis_name, chassis)) {
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not sure if it is a good idea to allow using hostname to match
> the
>>>>>> template var name. It provides flexibility to CMS, but we will need
> more
>>>>>> complexity to protect against corner cases.
>>>>>> For example, if there are two records:
>>>>>> r1: name="abc", value="v1"
>>>>>> r2: hostname="abc", value="v2"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now with the current logic, whichever is handled later will take
> precedence
>>>>>> (in the local_templates.vars) and the value will be used (assume r2
> "v2" is
>>>>>> used). This may be fine, because the user should be responsible for
> the
>>>>>> inconsistent configurations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later, when the user detects the problem and wants to correct the
>>>>>> configuration. He/she deletes the r2 and expects the var "abc" to be
>>>>>> expanded as "v1". But the logic in template_vars_update() would call
>>>>>> local_templates_remove() which simply deletes the var ("abc" ->
> "v2")
>>>>>> instead of replacing it with ("abc" -> "v1"). The uuid of "abc" ->
> "v1"
>>>>>> will still be left in the uuidset, which is useless. This is an
> unexpected
>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similar behavior would happen if there are duplicate hostnames,
> e.g.:
>>>>>> r1: hostname="abc", value="v1"
>>>>>> r2: hostname="abc", value="v2"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Very good point, nice catch!
>>>>
>>>> In general it might make sense to choose a bit different database
> schema,
>>>> e.g.:
>>>>
>>>>         "Chassis_Template_Vars": {
>>>>             "columns": {
>>>>                 "chassis": {"type": "string"},
>>>>                 "variables": {
>>>>                     "type": {"key": "string", "value": "string",
>>>>                              "min": 0, "max": "unlimited"}},
>>>>             "indexes": [["chassis"]],
>>>>             "isRoot": true}
>>>>
>>>> Here 'variables' or 'templates' or whatever you want to call it is a
>>>> Var->Value map.
>>>>
>>>> Index on the 'chassis' column will provide uniqueness of chassis names,
>>>> map has unique keys, so all variable names are unique within a chassis
>>>> as well.  This should cover all the possible misconfigurations on the
>>>> database level.
>>>>
>>>> As a bonus we will also save a lot of database space by not storing
>>>> millions of copies of chassis and variable names.  May speed up the
>>>> Nb->Sb synchronization as well.
>>>>
>>>> One downside is that we can't have true I-P for that table due to
>>>> inability to track which values in a map actually changed.  Though
>>>> it should be possible to figure out the diff in a semi-linear time
>>>> from the number of variables.  OpenFlow rules can still be processed
>>>> incrementally after that.  So, I'm not sure if that is a big
> performance
>>>> concern.  Testing is needed, I guess.
>>>>
>>>> Conditional monitoring will be very simple.  Chassis will receive only
>>>> one row in most cases.  update2 will cover variable updates.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?

Interesting, thanks for the suggestion!

>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Ilya Maximets.
>>>
>>> Thanks Ilya for the idea. I think it is definitely a good candidate to
> be evaluated, but I am slightly in favor of the original schema, and here
> is why.
>>> Firstly, I think the benefit of avoiding misconfigurations is somehow
> not that important, if we agree that it is good enough to stick with
> "chassis_name" and don't allow hostname matching.
>>
>> To be clear I wasn't arguing about hostnames, I don't think they are
>> needed.  It was a suggestion for a general look of a schema regardless.
>>
>>>
>>> So the more important factor to consider is actually the performance.
> On this front, the upside is, as you mentioned, the size of the table would
> be smaller. However, I don't see it as a very strong benefit. The only
> redundant part here is the chassis_name, which is usually an uuid, not too
> short but also not too long.
>>
>> UUID takes 38 bytes.  250node setup with 10K vars will result
>> in about 100 MB overhead.  It is noticeable.  Not a huge amount,
>> I agree, but fairly noticeable.
>>
>>> I agree that the waste of space for this can be big if there are tens of
> thousands of vars per chassis, but compared with the logical flow table
> size this is still a very small portion of the total size. In addition, the
> DB sync matters mostly at a chassis startup, and then each incremental
> change should be very small.
>>
>> I was thinking about Nb->Sb sync on northd.  We don't really have
>> any real I-P there (or did I missed it in the patch set? I didn't
>> look very close), so northd will need to re-check all that on
>> every iteration.  Since this scales up very fast with the number
>> of nodes, I'm concerned about northd performance here.
>>
> Ok, makes sense. Sorry that I didn't pay attention that you were talking
> about nb->sb instead of sb->hv.
> 

Chassis template variables are completely unrelated to any other tables
populated by northd.  So I think it's (relatively) easy to add I-P in
northd for chassis template var processing.

>>>
>>> On the other hand, I am more concerned with the OVSDB performance for
> handling the huge map/set column data. I understand that there have been
> lots of improvements made for the mutations, but I wonder if it is still
> less efficient than simple CRUDs for very small rows.
>>
>> Almost.  I'm not concerned about performance of ovsdb-server.
>> We're frequently running large scale tests with ovn-heater with
>> tens of thousands load-balancers in a single group, for example,
>> and ovsdb-server is barely loaded.
>>
>>> It *might* also be easier to further optimize the row based operations
> (such as creating index for more efficient conditional monitor updates)
> than for big columns.
>>>
>>> And of course, a strong negative side as you mentioned, is the I-P
> handling, which is definitely important. The current patch shows great
> simplicity in I-P compared with the address-set I-P that had a lot of
> complexity and overhead just for preprocessing and tracking the changes.
>>
>> It's a simple smap comparison that should be linear in time to
>> figure out what changed.  OpenFlows will be processed incrementally
>> in the same way as they are in the current patch set.  So, I'm
>> not sure if the performance impact will be noticeable.  Again,
>> someone probably need to test that.
>>
> For performance, yes, the comparison is linear, but if N is very big, the
> cost may still be high (we have much less tolerance of CPU cost in
> ovn-controller than in ovn-northd). I agree a test would help to understand
> the real impact.
> 
> However, hopefully N shouldn't be so big. I had the impression that N would
> be the same as the number of LBs, but with a second thought I believe it
> should be much less if configured properly. For VIP, each nodeport LB for
> the same node should share the same var; for LB port, the worst case is
> that each LB is assigned a port per node, but I wonder CMS should be smart
> enough to just assign the same ports across all nodes thus not even require
> the LB port to be included in the template var.
> 
> If that's the case, probably the performance concerns are less important
> for either approach. The code complexity may still be considered.
> 

Looking at the code that generates node port service load balancers in
ovn-kubernetes [0] [1] indeed for the VIP the nodeport LB can use a
single template variable for all load balancers.  For backends, on the
other hand, it's a bit more complicated because in some cases
(externalTrafficLocal/internalTrafficLocal) the set of backend IPs is
different per node.  So it's not only the LB port that differs.

In such cases we need a distinct backend template variable too.

So, for a setup with N nodes and M node-port services, we end up with
(worst case) N x M template variable records in the NB/SB.

[0]
https://github.com/ovn-org/ovn-kubernetes/blob/61bd7e49d2286bf59b4f2175bef3ba374fb1b99d/go-controller/pkg/ovn/controller/services/load_balancer.go#L79
[1]
https://github.com/ovn-org/ovn-kubernetes/blob/61bd7e49d2286bf59b4f2175bef3ba374fb1b99d/go-controller/pkg/ovn/controller/services/load_balancer.go#L299

>>>
>>> So, for the above reasons, I tend to stay with the current schema,
> unless
>>> 1) we are sure that handling huge map columns is as efficient as
> separate small rows in OVSDB;
>>
>> Should not be a problem with ovsdb-server 2.17 or higher.
>>
>>> 2) we improve IDL change tracking to support tracking mutations of
> map/set columns gracefully.
>>
>> I'm not sure if smap comparison is a huge problem as I said above,
>> so I don't know. IDL re-parsing might cause issues though.
> 
> Yes, thanks for reminding about the IDL cost.
> 
>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Anyway, not a strong opinion on my side.  Just a suggestion or
>> something to think about. :)
> 
> I don't have a strong opinion either. Probably we should also consider from
> CMS point of view, which way is more client friendly - managing separate
> records for each var or combining them per chassis. @Tim Rozet
> <[email protected]> @Girish Moodalbail <[email protected]>

I still think in the worst case (many node port services with different
sets of backends per node) the lack of proper I-P and IDL re-parsing
cost in ovn-controller might make a difference.

Tim, Girish what are worst case scenarios we could expect with
ovn-kubernetes?  I.e., how many nodes and how many node port services.
And out of these how many with external/internal traffic policy configured?

> 
> Thanks,
> Han
> 

Thanks,
Dumitru

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