To turn it around to a positive note, it'd be interesting to find the things that you feel you can now do with Win8 that you couldn't do with Win7 ie: if you go through this process, what are the benefits from upgrading?
For me that's: 1. Native Hyper-V execution. Previously I was using VirtualBox in this environment. However, I still don't have the same flexibility that VirtualBox offered in terms of screen resolutions, etc. For example, WinServer2008R2 guests in VirtualBox, trivial to use whatever screen real estate I want. In Hyper-V not so lucky. (Much more flexibility with WinServer2012 or Win8 guests in this regard) 2. Native ISO mounting. Previously I was using MagicISO most of the time. Never had an issue with it but it's nice to not need it now. But it also could do a bunch of things that the native mounting can't do. 3. Running RT apps. I'll appreciate this when I find one that's compelling for me. For me, that's about it. What would others add? Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fredericks, Chris Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 5:56 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Burstin Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 4:05 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? Windows, like a car, is a tool to get from A to B. People use tools because they make life easier. If a car manufacturer decided to change the way we drive (eg by swapping the location of the accelerator and brake) then people will rightly ask why. This has happened before - eg the gear stick moving from the column, which had a good reason. When changes are forced on us, it is legitimate to ask what the gain is given the pain of changing the way we use our tools. Agreed. I don't believe that saying "just learn it and if you don't like it then you must be a bad driver" is any kind of answer. If anything it implies that you don't have a good answer so you are trying to shame people into not asking questions. I wasn't seriously suggesting "if you can't cope with Windows 8, please avoid driving a car anywhere near me or my family" - the smiley face should have been the giveaway. Nothing that you suggest as being implied by my statement is true, or a fair claim to make. At worst it was a failed attempt at humour on my part. I do have answers, and I was actually typing them in my response to David's "The Level 1 Helpdesk Test" post when Ken's reply arrived and stole my thunder, almost word for word - great minds and all that. So you what you got instead was me not repeating what was just provided. Ditto for the argument that Office is not a fail, therefore the ribbon must be good and those who criticized it were, in hindsight, fools. I wonder how successful the new version of Office would have been if the ONLY change had been the ribbon. Don't know where that is coming from. I never said "ribbon must be good and those who criticized it were, in hindsight, fools". I am certainly guilty of poor or false analogy with the car, but I suspect you are guilty of false logic to imply the extreme contrary meaning to my statements. Learning new technology is fun FOR ME, but I would certainly not presume to speak for the people who use it as a tool to get their real job done. They, quite rightly, ask why they have to relearn how to use this tool just to get the same job done. And they deserve a good answer - not just "suck it up". It is fun for me too, and I don't want to provoke or upset anyone. I never asked anyone to suck it up. I just suggested some effort in learning to uncover it nuances would be beneficial. The fact that you need to do that is not good, but it is one answer for what it is worth with my limited experience in using Windows 8. Btw - I still find the Office ribbon difficult to navigate. Me too. My point was not whether the Ribbon is good or bad, but the furore that surrounded its introduction has waned as people learned and accepted it use. I suspect a similar situation will occur with Windows 8 adoption. Good or bad. DB Please, I am not at the extreme position you seem to want to assign to me. I am not singing the praises of Windows 8 - or the Office ribbon for that matter - in my original post I said I 'like' Windows 8, not 'love' it. It is far from perfect, but neither is it a complete fail. My experience is that it 'tastes' better with time and experience. But the fact that many of the features that you need to learn to return your productivity are not obvious or intuitive, and introduce a learning curve, is not good and will hinder it's adoption. Perhaps many will skip Windows 8 altogether and jump instead to the next major release which we all hope is handled better. I don't have a choice and I place myself somewhere in the middle of this discussion. Regards Chris On 09/05/2013 3:37 PM, "Fredericks, Chris" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I suspect the Office Ribbon wouldn't have passed the "The Level 1 Helpdesk Test" either - but Office hasn't been a 'fail'. And I am sure that most of the initial 'issues' with Windows 8 will pass in time as users learn it's nuances. Sometimes people have to make some effort to move out of their comfort zone, embrace change and learn something new instead of expecting everything to be obvious. The first time someone sits behind the steering wheel in a car, it is not very intuitive on how to use the clutch to change gears, or to even start the engine. Almost everyone needs to be taught how to drive a car - does that mean that a motor vehicle is a 'fail'? Everything I have read about why Windows 8 is a 'fail' seems a bit emotive and most of the problems listed are very easily addressed with a little research and learning. I suspect that safely driving a motor vehicle requires more effort, learning and concentration than what is required for Windows 8. If you can't cope with Windows 8, please avoid driving a car anywhere near me or my family. :) Just my 2c worth and I am most definitely not trying to offend anyone. Cheers, Chris From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? Caller: "Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop" Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key and the letter D at the same time Caller: "No, I can't see my start menu." Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. What do you need on the Start screen on Windows Server 2012? Cheers Ken From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:13 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:58 PM, David Burstin <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I am neutral about Windows 8, but what I do find annoying is that when people voice their opinions they get labeled as 'haters'. While it's a convenient way to dismiss other people's concerns, what you are basically saying is "this doesn't bother me so it can't be legitimate and therefore only reason you are saying it is because you are a troll/hater". Not a great basis for a productive discussion imho. I agree. I have this game I play as a part of mentoring people working for me on usability. I call it "The Level 1 Helpdesk Test". Whenever I see something that is batshit crazy, I ask them to run it past The Level 1 Helpdesk Test which involves: 1. Sitting at your PC pretending you're on level 1 helpdesk. 2. Imagine you've just answered the phone and someone is ringing up about the feature you've just shown off. 3. Imagine the conversation with that person as you describe how to use the feature. Windows 8 fails the level 1 help desk test in style. Caller: "Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop" Helpdesk: "Can you see a picture of Seattle or a mountain with desktop written on it?" Caller: "Ummm... no, I think ... I can see a picture of Julia Gillard and the weather in Paris, but I'm in Brisbane. Should I click on the purple box about Victoria Beckham?" Helpdesk: "No, keep looking for a box with desktop written on it in tiny writing." Caller: "Oh, I've found a flower with desktop written on it." Helpdesk: "That's your desktop. Click on that. BTW it is a flower today but it might be a mountain or seattle tomorrow." Caller: "That's better, I can see Windows now." Helpdesk: "Is that all?" Caller: "No, I can't see my start menu." Helpdesk: "Oh, you were just at the start menu." Caller: "The boxes with Victoria Beckham?" Helpdesk: "Yes, that's it." Caller: "Where is it?" Helpdesk: "It is in the bottom left single pixel of your monitor." Caller: "What's a pixel?" Helpdesk: "Nevermind, just move your mouse to the bottom left and you'll see a start menu pop up." Caller: "Oh, I see. But when I move my mouse over the button it disappears." Helpdesk: "Oh, you're not meant you click on it, you just move your mouse to make it appear and then click on it without actually moving your mouse over it." etc etc etc Fkn fail. Don't even start me on the Charms "Nothing can be shared right now" bar. You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. What did they do in previous versions of Windows? Helpdesk: "If you want a document or program, click start." Caller: "Thanks!" *click* David.
