Dear ljg I think we are talking at cross purposes here I am saying there is a place for all paths to learning about being with women and if we reject or say one is the way and the other the infedel/lost (to follow another exclusivist > example) - at our own and the lose of women. > Denise > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ljg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:43 AM > Subject: TBAs etc > > > > Dear Denise > > The difference is we are not in a developing country - I am well aware of > > the improtant roles TBAs/lay midwives etc play for the women in these > > countries !! In Australia, until the law changes, to call oneself > > a "midwife" one must meet the requirements whether we agree with it or > not. > > Having read much about TBAs I am also well aware that they have required > > education from trained professionals to improve perinatal mortality and > > morbidity rates in these countries (described by Kitzinger in "The Midwife > > Challenge"). > > > > I totally agree that we can all learn from each other, I feel that I > didn't > > quite get my thoughts across on this issue as well as I had wished. I > again > > agree that these amazing women should have prior experience acknowledged, > > and they should be readily accepted into B Mid programmes - I was not > aware > > that this wasn't happening (and find it quite ludicrous that it's not to > be > > honest) As my argument is that as a profession, we must have standards to > > protect women and their babies; then to accept traditional midwives into > > these programmes, can only increase safe choices for women. > > > > On the subject of Ina May Gaskin - yes the ICM definition does exclude > these > > women - in an interview I read recently with Ina May she was quoted as > > saying she believed that "certification is one important way of helping > the > > public to know that the certified (direct-entry) midwife has passed an > > examination created by experienced, knowledge midwives and that she has > > demonstrated her mastery of requisite midwifery skills.....) > > www.wearsthebaby.com/articles/inamay. > > This is my argument that without any > > "formal" proof of a midwives abilities then how do we be sure she is a > safe > > practitioner ? Doesn't it prevent Josephine Bloggs from down the road > > deciding oneday that she'll become a midwife, and with minimal experience, > > start attending women in childbirth - having "done" a few births with an > > experienced midwife she goes out on her own, thinking everything is great, > > as most birth normally ! Then she gets the flat baby or the PPH etc - > (this > > is what I meant in my previous post, this was not directed at experienced > > lay midwives.) This is why we have the laws we do - call it control or > > whatever you like - and obviously some of these laws are not particulary > > current - Qld Gov is reviewing the Nursing Act at the moment - so everyone > > should pop in a submission and tell 'em what you want. > > ljg > > > > > > > > > Dear ljq and others, > > > It is sad though not suprising that the ICM definition of what is a > > midwife > > > can be quoted to exclude midwives such as InaMay Gaskin and Sue cookson > > and > > > many others who give so much not only to women but to other midwives! > > > > > > Imagine the difficulties of so many more women in developing countries > if > > we > > > were to out law Traditional Birth Attendants? > > > I know from my time in PNG that failing to learn from them, infact they > > were > > > never mentioned 20 years ago and imposing western birthing practices > > > "midwifery" (now I know to be obstetric nursing) but then and now as > > > approved by ICM, for I see current midwives telling and doing the same > to > > > women in hospitals here and elsewhere. > > > Anyway this registered midwife learnt the hard way to stop doing most > of > > > those things I was taught in the UK to do, to explore what is possible > and > > > the results have been the most wonderous births and babies! for me > > > inspiration has come from midwives who have not stayed or either not > began > > > within the formal and limiting organisational structures. > > > > > > Also the history of midwifery makes me think Sue, and other lay > midwives, > > > has not only a lot to offer and positive reasons why we should embrace > and > > > seek to share the knowledge and experience of these strong, individual > > women > > > who are motivated to take a singular unsupported to be with women. > > > The regulation of our forebears was an introduction to not only control > by > > > the medical and nursing fraternities but also resulted in the lose of > most > > > midwifery knowledge. > > > Knowledge which we are still struggling to rediscover thanks again to > > > independent and divergent midwives and women who have struggled to > reject > > > the medical limitations and interventions of birth which were taught to > > many > > > of us as normal and safe birthing practices!! > > > > > > It is also incongruent and sad in this age of Recognition of prior > > learning > > > in most colleges and universities that the program that our profession > has > > > been so strong in intiating does not apply this principle particularly > in > > > light of the new costiutional changes, NZ's example of partnership and > > what > > > it can produce as well as the new learning that is coming from the > > practice > > > of MIPPs and homebirth. > > > > > > It is not the act of a nurturing profession to be exclusive rather to > > > inclusive and seek common ground and partnerships toward mutual goals > then > > > we will be advancing the goal of > > > "Peace at birth > > > Peace on Earth" > > > > > > Denise > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "ljg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Support homebirth on Thursday > > > > > > > > > > I must agree wholeheartedly with Trish - lets all remember the > > > International > > > > Confederation of Midwives definition of a Midwife > > > > > > > > "having been regularly admitted to a midwifery educational > program, > > > duly > > > > recognised in the country in which it is located, has > > successfully > > > > completed the prescribed course of studies in midwifery and has > acquired > > > the > > > > requisite qualifications to be registered and/or legally licensed > to > > > > practise midwifery". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Claire Brassard may be a very competent birth attendant (I > have > > no > > > > way of > > > > > knowing either way), and there may be other 'traditional' birth > > > attendants > > > > out > > > > > there, I cannot support such a protest until such time as we have > > > > recognition of > > > > > their knowledge and skills against the same criteria that formally > > > > prepared > > > > > midwives do. > > > > > > > > > > In all States and Territories and in most countries around the world > > the > > > > word > > > > > 'midwife' is a protected title. This means that only those people > who > > > meet > > > > their > > > > > country's criteria to be recognised as a midwife can be called a > > midwife > > > > and can > > > > > practise under law as a midwife. The QNC has no option but to take > > this > > > > action > > > > > because neither it nor any other regulatory authority in Australia > has > > > the > > > > power > > > > > to 'recognise' these women as midwives. > > > > > > > > > > I reiterate, this is irregardless of their level of knowledge, skill > > and > > > > > experience, and many of you would argue that some of these women > would > > > run > > > > rings > > > > > around us formally educated midwives. That is as may be. But how > does > > > > anyone > > > > > know for sure? With no standard against which they can be measured > for > > > > minimum > > > > > requirements to competence? > > > > > > > > > > I therefore suggest that it is self-defeating to ask for an > individual > > > to > > > > claim > > > > > the title 'midwife' and the right to practise as such when there is > no > > > > statute, > > > > > and no caveat that will allow it. Rather it would be more to the > point > > > to > > > > try to > > > > > create the process that would recognise 'other' ways of entering the > > > > profession > > > > > besides formal studies. USA managed this process. It will be costly > > and > > > > > time-consuming and might fail. But it is imperative to protect the > > right > > > > of > > > > > women to have a standard of midwife, because if the standard can > vary > > > > greatly > > > > > across formal programs when there are all sorts of processes in > place > > to > > > > enforce > > > > > them, then the standard for those without formal training and > > education > > > > can vary > > > > > even more greatly..... But we will never know because they are never > > > > measured. > > > > > And anyone could lay claim to the title 'midwife'. And that is not a > > > > situation I > > > > > would like to see happen. > > > > > > > > > > Women might want choices, but they want and deserve some assurance > > that > > > > the > > > > > choices they make are from safe alternatives. They must trust the > > > > profession to > > > > > regulate itself in their interests because not every woman has the > > > > resources to > > > > > investigate each birth attendant herself. This is actually working > > quite > > > > well, > > > > > and the processes put in place to begin national standardisation in > > the > > > > last > > > > > couple of years will assure that it works even better in the future. > > It > > > is > > > > hoped > > > > > women will have a greater say in how these processes work and what > > > > standards > > > > > will be met from now on. And that might include recognition of 'lay' > > or > > > > > 'traditional' birth attendants as midwives. > > > > > > > > > > Just my thoughts, and with greatest respect to individuals referred > > to, > > > > who may > > > > > indeed be the safest attendant possible. Trish David. > > > > > > > > > > Toni Cannard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ozmidwifery People, > > > > > > > > > > > > Claire Brassard, a traditional midwife, (read not a registered > nurse > > > or > > > > > > midwife) is being banned from giving care to pregnant women by the > > > > > > Queensland Nursing Council (QNC). > > > > > > > > > > > > The e-mail that follows tells you how you can participate in a > > > Brisbane > > > > > > Protest tomorrow to give the press, media and pollies the > following > > > > message: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Women want choices. Women who choose homebirth want the option > of > > > > choosing > > > > > > a traditional midwife." > > > > > > > > > > > > Time to stand up and be counted - do we support women having free > > > choice > > > > or > > > > > > do we only support women choosing from the the options we would > like > > > > them to > > > > > > have? > > > > > > > > > > > > Working for true choice, > > > > > > > > > > > > Toni Cannard > > > > > > Vice President > > > > > > AIMS Australia Inc (Association for Improvements in the Maternity > > > > Services - > > > > > > A consumer action group) > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bruce Teakle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >>Subject: Support homebirth on Thursday > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:21:50 +1000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bruce Teakle > > > > > > >Lindsay Rd > > > > > > >Mt Glorious 4520 > > > > > > >Ph 07 3289 0231 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear supporters of homebirth, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You should know by now that Claire is going to court on > thursday,13 > > > th > > > > of > > > > > > >december for the Supreme court to force her to cease caring for > > > > pregnant > > > > > > >women. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >There is a telephone process underway to get as many supporters > to > > > the > > > > > > >Brisbane Court by 9.15 am on thursday morning as possible. Please > > > think > > > > > > >about who you know who might come to support our right to a > "SAFE, > > > > > > >RESPONSIBLE, CARING" choice in birthing, and put out the word. > It's > > > > just > > > > > > >fine if people hear more than once. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The Theme > > > > > > > > > > > > > >There are several purposes to our gathering. > > > > > > >>1. To farewell Claire from our service, and grieve for the loss > of > > > her > > > > > > >>care. > > > > > > >>2. To celebrate the spirit of midwifery and its long tradition. > > > > > > >>3. To bear witness to the action of the state in denying us > > Claire's > > > > care. > > > > > > >>4. To express our dissatisfaction with the poor service of our > > > > political > > > > > > >>servants in regard to respecting women's right of choice in > > > birthing. > > > > > > >Hopefully this will include some coverage by the media, and we > are > > > > working > > > > > > >at getting that to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The Image > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We will look (and be) powerful, in a way which is most likely to > > make > > > > our > > > > > > > >political servants take notice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I propose that we behave somewhat like we are seeing off the > queen > > > > (Claire > > > > > > >is not the queen, actually sometimes she's just very naughty. > > > > > > >However.....). For some of us Claire is the person who has given > > us > > > > the > > > > > > >sort of loving care we are seeking in birth. For others, she may > > > > symbolise > > > > > > >the care we have had from another midwife or even what we think > > women > > > > > > >deserve. What we express in love and respect for Claire is > symbolic > > > of > > > > our > > > > > > >feelings about the >model of care we seek. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So let us dress and perform as if we are farewelling the queen. > > > > Flowers, > > > > > > > >children, kisses, tears, families, our best clothes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Don't get me wrong, this isn't wet and weak, this is a > > demonstration > > > of > > > > the > > > > > > >state interfering in the lives of ordinary loving families, for > no > > > > reason, > > > > > > >and that does not look good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The Routine > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We turn up at 9.15. We can't afford to be late. Don't forget this > > is > > > > the > > > > > > >city at peak hour, and driving in, and finding parking is a slow, > > > > terrible > > > > > > >and expensive business. Consider taking the train from somewhere > > > > > > >convenient. The court is equal distances from Central and Roma > > > street > > > > > > >stations, both are very close. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We arrive, assemble outside the court building, and prepare for > > > > Claire's > > > > > > >arrival soon after 9.30. When Claire arrives she walks the aisle > we > > > > prepare > > > > > > >for her, kissing and farewelling. This is when our photo > > > opportunities > > > > are, > > > > > > >when we all need to be there and prepared. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >She goes into court with her barrister and those of us who can go > > in > > > > > > >(without children) to witness the proceeding. The court > proceedings > > > > > > >(everyone already inside and assembled) should start at 10.00 and > > > take > > > > 10 > > > > > > >minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Claire will then have finished her 22 years of renegade > traditional > > > > > > >midwifery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >What next? I don't know. I'll let my beard grow back, and we can > > get > > > > back > > > > > > >to normal (whatever that was) for a few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We certainly have a big job to do in january, with the > competition > > > > policy > > > > > > > >stuff and so on, and preparing to get back onto our > > > representative's > > > > > > >agenda's after their holidays. This is a big task we have > embarked > > > on, > > > > and > > > > > > >we won't be letting go. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >See you there on thursday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes from Bruce. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. >
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