> Dear Michelle
> I remember years ago assisting with several circumcisions a day also
having
> my tonsils out when I started getting bouts of tonsilitis as did many
> children.
> But these things do not happen today because the opponeents to the wide
> spread performance of these procedures started the debate and raised the
> issue of how much it was costing us as a community and the names of the
> children who died as a result of questionable/unnecessary tonsilectomies
> (Matthew Davey in Manly??).
> I see the current state of normal healthy women going to a specialist
doctor
> for a normal healthy life event and having questionable, unnecessary and
> dangerous for some (I have seen a woman in intensive care with a subdural
> heamatoma and many with headaches form dural taps via an epiduarl for
naomal
> labour) in the same light or rather lack of light, education as you put
it!
>
> Look at our bottle feeding and breast feeding rates and the full history
of
> their cycles!!
>
> These practices (circumcision, tonsilectomy, bottle feeding epiduarls and
> doctors for normal birth) are influenced more by misinformation, myth and
> fashions of our cultures.
> Eighty years ago the wealthy women went to doctors and got twilight sleep
> whilst the poorer stayed home and had midwives. Th larger numbers of the
> latter who died in child birth were attributed to the poor care of
midwives
> rather than their poor housing, diets, and health so we built more
hospitals
> and educated more doctors and brought the midwives in under both.
> Thus we have many midwives who like many doctors do not know how to help a
> woman deal with the pain and time in labour with out getting rid of the
pain
> and not appreciate the risks we run in doing so, who do not recognise the
> psycho social aspects and influences on labour including Fear!!
> But for me the real fear is the risks they and we run in not understanding
> the full potential of all we do and say around childbearing couples, what
we
> accept as informed choice, informed by who and what??.
> Denise
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michelle McKenzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [birthnews] Intro
>
>
> > Hi, as this is my first reply I will intoduce myself. My name is
Michelle
> > McKenzie and I also work in a Private hospital.I have worked in this
> > hospital for 10 years. I co-ordinate the prenatal education in our
> hospital.
> > I have two children both of whom I gave birth to at the Sydney Adventist
> > Hospital under a private obstetrician. With both of my children, I
> laboured
> > and delivered the way I wanted to and with both I had a normal delivery
> with
> > no drugs. I agree with kath in that I believe the clients who choose our
> > hospital and their own private obstetrician have made their own choice
on
> > the type of childbirth they prefer. We do not push them into having an
> > epidural rather they come to us demanding one the minute they arrive in
> > delivery suite. The clients we see are very well educated and informed
on
> > the choices available to them. I do not believe I am a 'glorified nurse'
> > because I have chosen to work in a private hospital. I love my work as a
> > midwife and respect the choice the client has made to see a private
> > obstetrician and come to a private hospital, but am alittle saddened at
> the
> > lack of support from other colleuges who work in the public system or as
> > independent practitioners.
> >
> > Michelle McKenzie
> > Midwife, Nurse and Prenatal Educator,
> > Maternity Unit, Sydney Adventist Hospital
> > 9487 9455 or 9487 9111 (page 042)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, 25 January 2002 6:27 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [birthnews] Intro
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi
> > What a can of worms!!! I work in a private hospital & have felt all the
> > emotions Julie describes sickened, shocked distressed disappointed
> > disillusioned and downright depressed. The challenge is to enable as
many
> > women as pos to experience a drug free natural labour and that is some
> > challenge considering the forces working in the opposite direction! The
> > majority of women who attend the CBE classes have access to all the info
> and
> > options and are choosing their birthing place so I think their choices
> > should be respected and "to facilitate what is happening rather than
what
> > you think should be happening"(Tao Te Ching)
> > Cheers
> >
> > Kath
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joanne Westley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2002 07:53
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [birthnews] Intro
> >
> >
> > Isn't this the big question?
> > As an informed non-health professional who has birthed four children
over
> 10
> > years, can I suggest that there is a far greater number of birthing
women
> > who want better - "normal" - births than there are midwives and medical
> > professionals willing and able to support them.
> > As you say, plenty say they will, but don't.
> > While some midwives continue to treat themselves as glorified nurses,
> > abdicating to 'the system' at every given opportunity, we will continue
to
> > see everyday women feeling that a normal birth is one which includes
> > induction, medication, hospital, stitches and, dare I say it, even a
> caesar.
> > My offering is that:
> > *We need to empower midwives, not just consumers. They need to value
their
> > position more and see more spontaneous, natural births and appreciate
them
> > and the *ongoing* empowerment they offer to women. I'd like to see
funding
> > given to midwives to attend natural birth workshops, for example,
> especially
> > in country and outer suburban hospitals.
> > *We need to inform and educate men as partners to support women in
making
> > choices in birth care. Men too often feel that the medical fraternity is
> the
> > best care for their partner and will abdicate full responsibility and
> > decision making trust to an ob rather than their spouse.
> > We need direct entry midwifery.
> > We need an alternative childbirth education diploma.
> > I'm obviously opinionated and I'll stop now :)
> > Have a cool and groovy day!
> >
> > >From: "Sue Bowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: RE: [birthnews] Intro
> > >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:20:55 -0000
> > >
> > >I agree with this.... but it is all very well to sit and proficate, but
> > >how do we as health professionals initiate change... and empower women
> > >to make informed decisions, with consent.. normalise birth in
Australia,
> > >in a wider context, and not for a select few...
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 6:34 AM
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: [birthnews] Intro
> > >
> > >Dear Julie
> > >I agree I won't work in the labour units of many private ands some
> > >public
> > >hopistals when I do agency work because I recognise that many only pay
> > >lip
> > >service to informed choice, evidence based practice etc.
> > >Their outcomes reflect their beliefs and practices!!
> > >
> > >Women and midwives who have repeated natural outcomes are not freaks
> > >their
> > >outcomes show they know how to work toward these outcomes and do so!!
> > >
> > >Our community and women need to be made aware how vulnerable labouring
> > >are
> > >and this is not the time for any one to try negotiate care options or
to
> > >debate the risks benefits of birth practices!! The fear and attitudes
> > >that
> > >they have around them in labour are powerful influences and the
beliefs,
> > >attitudes knowledge and expereinces of those around them need to be
> > >congruent with the woman's desire for a natural birth!
> > >
> > >It is like buying a car if you wnat a BMW you do not go to Holden
Dealer
> > >all
> > >car salesmen are not the same nor are maternity carers if you want a
> > >natural
> > >birth then you go to those who most consistently deliver natural birth
> > >outcomes
> > >Australain hospitals particularly in the priavate sector mostly deliver
> > >women and babies following many interventions who have been told it was
> > >their fault they need rescuing and so they continue through their
> > >parenting!!!
> > >
> > >It is sad and scary as our government and media promotes private
> > >hospital
> > >care but we who know better need to increase our networks and make
known
> > >and
> > >accessible other routes rather than un questionably support uninformed
> > >choices!!
> > >
> > >Forgive my ranting I am waiting for some babies to come forth so their
> > >mother calls me that is why I sit on my computer with my mobile turned
> > >on
> > >next to me
> > >Denise
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "pregnancy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 12:31 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [birthnews] Intro
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Karen and all,
> > > > My decision not to attend births as a support person/doula in
private
> > > > hospitals is based on my previous experiences trying diplomatically
to
> > > > be an advocate but completely wasting time and effort and walking
away
> > > > from the experience sickened, shocked and distressed.
> > > > Yes, I have felt similar feelings after many public hospital births,
> > > > but to a much lesser extent.
> > > > I just don't go there anymore... perhaps one day I'll change my mind
> > >;-)
> > > > hug
> > > > Julie
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karen Shlegeris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:51 pm
> > > > Subject: Re: [birthnews] Intro
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Julie,
> > > > > Nice to hear from you via the list. I was interested to read your
> > > > > commentthat you don't support births at private hospitals - could
> > > > > you expand on
> > > > > that a bit please?
> > > > > Best wishes,
> > > > > Karen Shlegeris
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This BirthNews list is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore and the Birth
> > > > > Issues Journal.
> > > > > http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This BirthNews list is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore and the Birth
> > >Issues
> > >Journal.
> > > > http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >This BirthNews list is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore and the Birth
> > >Issues Journal.
> > >http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
> > >
> > >
> > >This BirthNews list is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore and the Birth
Issues
> > >Journal.
> > >http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> > This BirthNews list is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore and the Birth
Issues
> > Journal.
> > http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
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Issues
> > Journal.
> > http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
> >
> >
> > CAUTION: This message may contain both confidential and privileged
> > information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not
> the
> > intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> > distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have
> > received this message in error please notify the sender immediately,
then
> > destroy the original message. Any views expressed in this message are
> > solely those of the individual sender, except where the sender is
> > specifically authorised by Sydney Adventist Hospital to state that they
> are
> > the views of Sydney Adventist Hospital.
> >
> >
> >
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> Journal.
> > http://www.capersbookstore.com.au
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