As a mum, I really loved hearing my baby's heartbeat - probably something to do with the above event happening when I was working between my first and second baby. Laboured quite rapidly with second baby, hospital was really busy and didn't have a midwife around a lot, and it really stressed me that I couldn't hear the FHR as often as I would have like to. Third baby the midwife's were fantastic, turned the volume up quite loud on the sonacade so even in my rather 'detached and concentrating state' I could just nod my head and they knew I was happy.
Cheryl
From: "Ron & Nicole Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: fetal hearts Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 23:40:18 +1100
I too did not mind my midwives checking my baby's heart rate during labour.
I remember them doing it in a very non-intrusive way (and not overly regular
also) - they actually got down on the ground and contorted, to listen -
when I was in my different positions - so it went with the flow - not
actually stopping the momentum of my fairly quick labour.
I too, felt reassurance hearing my baby's heart beat...we were both in this
together...
regards, Nicole
----- Original Message -----
From: jo hunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal hearts
> Hi Marilyn,
> I personally don't and didn't have a problem with my fetal hearts being
> listened to at my own homebirths where there was a midwife present.
> I think the argument is, correct me if I'm wrong, how often to listen in.
> Thinking of my own labours I would consider after ever contraction to be a
> bit over the top and I could imagine getting annoyed should someone be
> trying to do that to me. I'm not a trained midwife so have no idea what
the
> standard of practice is regarding this - but every 2 minutes???
> I agree that hearing the heart when in labour is reassuring and reminds us
> of why we are doing the whole labour thing and yes, mothers should most
> definately not fear the midwife listening in.
> All the best
> Jo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal
hearts
>
>
> > Hi Jo and all:
> >
> > This timing of listening to fetal hearts keeps coming up and I find it
> > concerning. Having worked and studied in the USA in homebirths and been
to
> > workshops with Ina May Gaskin et al., I do not recall any of my mentors
> > there even debating whether to listen to the FH or not during labour and
> > birth. I want to make it clear I am talking about studying in the
> heartland
> > of homebirth in the USA not some obstetric hospital there. Now we have
all
> > been to births where the last thing you have time for is getting an
> > obligatory fetal heart before the baby is born but that is a no-brainer
> and
> > a quite different situation from a midwife in attendance at a birth not
> > listening to the baby to avoid disturbing the ambience/mood of the
mother.
> > On our very first interview with our mothers to be we discussed how
mother
> > and baby would be monitored in labour the frequency etc., our transfer
> > policies, there were no surprises in store for the women. Our women were
> > happy to have their BP, pulse and temp monitored in labour and
understood
> > why and how often we would do this, they were also happy for us to
listen
> to
> > the baby at 30 min, 15 min, and between ctx intervals we would discuss
> doing
> > this with headphones if using a doppler, or using a pinards or a
fetoscope
> > if they didn't want the u/s technology used. As I think Lesley said,
there
> > are many births that the neighbour lady could have popped in to catch in
> > which these monitorings are nothing more than reassuring and they could
> lull
> > you into believing they aren't necessary, what we are there for is to
> catch
> > the anomolous birth where things aren't quite right and decisions need
to
> be
> > made. Also as has been said things can appear normal if you aren't
> > monitoring when in fact they aren't, sometimes mothers become aware that
> > something is amiss and other times they don't. Particularly when you
have
> > prolonged first or second stage I believe you need to be listening for
> fetal
> > well being.
> >
> > In the practices I worked in our transfer rate was low (between 10 to 20
%
> > depending on the proportion of primips in the practice at any point in
> time)
> > as was the c/s rate (5%). I have to say that I have never been present
at
> a
> > homebirth where the monitoring appeared to have a negative effect by
> > increasing fear/angst, adrenaline etc, though theoretically I can see
and
> > understand the argument. Quite honestly I had never even heard
> intermittent
> > auscultation as being a problem until I read it on this list. I know
that
> > studies have linked efm and ctg's with increased intervention and so we
do
> > need to be aware of the misuse and misunderstanding of technology (it is
> my
> > understanding that it is not the trace so often that is wrong as the
> > interpretation of the trace as could be the interpretation of decels
heard
> > by doppler). I do think we need to be cautious about what we discard or
> want
> > discarded and I don't think mothers or fathers need to fear their
midwife
> > listening to the fetal heart: it should be reassuring.
> >
> > marilyn
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jo hunter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 12:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky
> >
> >
> > > Hi Nicole,
> > > Great to see you the other day - even though brief.
> > > About the hospital run homebirth service, I think that alot of the
> > comments
> > > that are seen as negative are a reflection of the lack of faith
> consumers
> > as
> > > well as midwives have in the hospital system. I think we all agree
that
> > Pat
> > > and Nicky are wonderful women centred midwives with alot of
experience.
> > The
> > > 'negative' comments, although may appear to be directed at them,
> actually
> > > are not, they are directed at the 'system'.
> > > We have a hospital system in this country that can't even serve the
> women
> > > who want to use them, with the majority of women (unless really strong
> and
> > > educated and well supported) suffering unnecessary intervention at the
> > hands
> > > of overzealous obstetricians. Midwives hands are tied because of the
> > > hospital protocols under which they must operate or they fear losing
> their
> > > jobs. This has been described by some midwives on this list as a
> reality.
> > > I was ignorant to this for some time, having had homebirths myself and
> > only
> > > knowing what other women had told me of their experience and treatment
> in
> > > the 'system'. Now as I support more and more women as their doula in
> > > hospitals I am appalled at what goes on. It must be the most
> > > incredibly frustrating job working as a hospital midwife and I applaud
> all
> > > who soldier on regardless.
> > > The reason a hospital run homebirth service concerns me is for the
very
> > > reason that it is hospital run. I don't doubt that the midwives
> operating
> > > and working in the service all have the very best intentions and all
> > > advocate women centred care, however I have to question whether, to
some
> > > extent their hands will also be tied with the fear of losing their
jobs
> > > should a situation arise that an Independent midwife may see as within
> the
> > > normal realm but the protocols and guidelines of the hospital system
see
> > as
> > > abnormal. There are many many
> > > 'situations' during labour and birth where this is evident (even down
to
> > how
> > > often a midwife should
> > > listen to a baby's heart during labour, whether this is necessary
after
> > > every contraction so the midwife has an idea of how the baby is coping
> or
> > > whether it is yet another unnecessary intervention the women is
> subjected
> > to
> > > that may
> > > interrupt the rhythm of her labour)
> > > Of course we are all striving to achieve the same goal, real choices
for
> > > women, publicly funded homebirth and one to one midwifery care. It is
> > > imperative that we get it right the first time round (for NSW) as this
> is
> > > most likely our only chance.
> > > So pleased you've joined the list Nicole - will catch you soon.
> > > Jo Hunter
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ron & Nicole Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > As a newcomer to this mailing list, I haven't had the time to go
> through
> > > all
> > > > of the responses to the 'models of midwifery care' debate - but just
> > > merely
> > > > browsing through some of the e-mails - it perplexes me that there
> would
> > be
> > > > so much negativity - even more so - when we have two VERY
experienced,
> > > VERY
> > > > wise, VERY respected; VERY intuitive; VERY woman centred and VERY
> > > homebirth
> > > > orientated midwives who are at the forefront of developing such a
> model
> > > > inclusive of homebirth ..... that in itself will hold my faith,
> > confidence
> > > > and belief in this model.
> > > > I would also have faith in the midwives who would be part of such a
> > > model -
> > > > to be woman/family centred and have a strong belief and love of
birth
> as
> > > a
> > > > natural and normal family event ... I just cannot envisage a
> medically
> > > > minded midwife (which is contradictory in itself!) to be interested
in
> > > being
> > > > a part of this - nor do I see Pat or Nicky allowing such a midwife
on
> > the
> > > > team. I do not believe that a homebirth midwife attached to a
> midwifery
> > > > model at a hospital would be any less passionate and loving as an
> > > > independent midwife - and yes, I too can see interest from
independent
> > > > midwives who haven't practised since the indemnity crisis or from
> those
> > > who
> > > > need a bit more security - great!!!
> > > > Especially in the light of this ever increasing caesarean epidemic -
I
> > > > embrace and praise this attempt to provide homebirths as part of a
new
> > > > midwifery model. I know that it is something that I would absolutely
> > use -
> > > > especially when the cost of an independant midwife rules our little
> one
> > > > income family out of that league (our recent homebirth was a loving
> > gift).
> > > > I see it as a positive and exciting step forward in what is a very
> bleak
> > > and
> > > > dismal maternity service that currently exists.
> > > > I just hope that Pat and Nicky do not get so disheartened by the
lack
> of
> > > > support, that they would consider forgetting about setting up the
> > > proposed
> > > > model.
> > > > We should all be saying Go Pat and Nicky!!! (I know I am!!!).
> > > >
> > > > kindest regards,
> > > > Nicole
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Andrea Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:03 PM
> > > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >Subject: response from Pat and Nicky
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:59:40 +1100
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dear Andrea
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thank you for sending us the emails that have been circulating
> about
> > > the
> > > > > >proposed homebirth model at St George.We find much of the content
> > > > > >insulting and grossly ill informed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It is hard to imagine where the information has been collected
from
> > and
> > > > we
> > > > > >find it very sad that so much can be said about what is not yet
> > formed
> > > in
> > > > > >any way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >There is a meeting in a few weeks time and these views will be
well
> > > > > >represented and discussed in a respectful and honourable manner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Please do not forward us any more emails.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >You may post this onto ozmidwifery
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Many thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Pat Brodie & Nicky Leap
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > > Andrea Robertson
> > > > > Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth
> > Education
> > > > >
> > > > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > web: www.birthinternational.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
> --
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