Sally I didn't mean that the doula necessarily knew she was getting her feet wet by attending homebirths but more that this is what she may be doing. It is a fine line. Just a note on apprenticeship: it is not something easy to attain especially by most women in western cultures today who may not even know a home birth midwife let alone know one well enough to be invited to apprentice. In the USA where this is a common way that MANA midwives are trained/educated apprenticeship positions are coveted but the demand far outstrips the supply. Thus women who feel called to be with women often do become doulas first. Many go no further feeling fulfilled in that role. And you are right, their role is a knowledgeable supporter not a medically dabbled one. That being said most doulas I know truly are well educated.
Most (or should I say many or even a few) birth doulas also provide postnatal care or at least know women who do. Of course you can run into postnatal doulas who are offering advice on breastfeeding/lactation, baby care, mothering etc.. At some point we have to trust women to sort it all out. However it is a grey area and what can be a collaborative or complementary effort can easily become a turf war. I have only had one experience which was frustrating at the time but humorous in hind sight, I think years ago I mentioned it on this list: the doula who jumped into the birthing pool to support the perineum...umm! quite a night that one. She however truly was the exception (in many many ways). marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] doula article > I think the confusion between aspiring midwife/doula is an interesting one. > > An aspiring midwife who is wishing to 'get' experience as well as supporting a > woman at a birth i would like to see apprenticed to a midwife or a group of > midwives rather than selling herself as a doula. The aspiring women then is in > a place of training 'with woman' and 'with sister midwife'. The old way of > growing midwives. (this is my bias as i'm eternally grateful to the midwives > who 'grew me'. Thanks Helen, Terry and Annie in Tassie!) > > A doula has a different role in not dabbling in the medical but staying 'with > woman'and 'with family'. > > One of the things that i really would like to see more emphasis on is the post- > natal doula. In a society that has become fragmented and families isolated > having another experienced woman supporting the emering mother/father/family > is a vital ingredient. > > > Sally Westbury > Homebirth Midwife > Quoting Marilyn Kleidon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > You know i think when doulas are seen as a threat to the midwife's role > > either in the home as an independent practitioner or in the hospital setting > > no matter how tuned in or turned on or turned off the hospital is then the > > doula becomes an adverary and she is a threat. > > > > However she is not meant to be this but rather a compassionate support > > person who has up to date knowledge about whatever childbirth setting the > > woman has chosen. She is there to make sure the woman is massaged, has hot > > towels, gets her feet rubbed, relieves dad to go to the toilet, remains as > > active as possible, explain what is happening to the woman her partner and > > relatives (which may or may not include previous children). She is not there > > to replace anybody just to add to. If we are honest we all know that on some > > shifts we can provide all of the above to women and on other shifts with the > > best of intentions we just can not. In a busy homebirth practice this can be > > true too, however to be honest doulas at homebirths are often want to be > > midwives getting their feet wet and if they are welcomed by everyone can > > provide and have a rewarding experience. But again they provide massages etc > > sometimes to dad and the midwife too. Some doulas are payed in money, others > > barter, and for others it is simply the birth experience and they would pay > > to be there. > > > > Many women choose a doula when in a hospital setting they feel their partner > > will not be up to the negotiating with health care professionals, or will not > > be able to help them resist using drugs they do not want to use...simple as > > that. And it is true many men become so overwhelmed by their partners labour > > they cannot or do not advocate like this. Of course as a doula you have to > > realise that you have absolutely no right but that you can support the woman > > and her partner in their choices. In most cases doulas are chosen to help > > the woman have as drug free a birth as possible, if this is taken as an > > indicment of our system then so be it. > > > > marilyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Callum & Kirsten > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 3:10 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] doula article > > > > > > I think i have to agree with you Denise. In NZ where the maternity system > > is different to here in Australia, and there is more woman centered midwifery > > care there are no doulas that i know of. In fact one of my lecturers at > > Auckland University of Technology, told us one day that Doulas were a threat > > to midwives and their role. To me (and i may be naive) that's what > > care/support i expect to give as a midwife. > > > > I also think the reason woman need doulas should also be brought up in the > > article, as a kiwi and a student midwife i am really intrigued. > > > > I hope you look into it Kylie. Certainly also why australia needs them when > > NZ a different maternity system doesn't. Maybe it does say something about > > the current system? > > > > Kirsten > > Darwin > > ~~~start life with a midwife~~~ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Denise Hynd > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 6:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] doula article > > > > > > Dear Jo, > > Interesting where are these women to birth? > > > > With the women's family members sounds like quite a group at each of the > > labours and births? > > > > My experience of the most satisfying birthing expereinces for all has > > been at home when the woman has turned in and worked with her baby more than > > any one or any thing in the environment and the hormones have flowed the > > labour has progressed and it has been her resultant behaviour which the > > midwife and partner have tuned into and worked around also!! > > for example I think of several births where the Primp couple have been > > together in the toilet or bathroom alot of the time with the lights down low > > in the hall where I was except when I came to listen to the baby after > > listening to her sounds and knowing she is progressing or not and then making > > suggestions, giving feedback between contractions and rest periods. > > > > Denise Hynd > > > > "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world. For, > > indeed, they are the only ones who ever have." > > Margaret Mead > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dean & Jo > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] doula article > > > > > > Hi Denise, > > I am doulaing with three women who are accessing one on one midwifery > > care also (not to mention the students they are having follow them too!) I > > suppose it is up to the individual woman. Some want the midwife there for > > the birth but want the doula there for moral support and support for her > > partner, other children or just for her. Despite the fact that midwives > > -especially the independant ones- offer this type of care when it comes to > > the crunch, there is a job for her to do and sometimes her focus is shifted > > from supporting the hubby or even the woman -eye to eye back rubbing etc- due > > to the clinical skills being required. > > Jo > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Denise Hynd > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] doula article > > > > > > Dear Kylie > > I am going to paly devil's advocate and ask if yoyr article will talk > > of the pros and cons of Doula's? > > > > For example I and others see the increase and popularity of Doula's > > as a reflection of the lack of the women cenrtred-ness of the system and > > world's best practice 1-2-1 midwifery options, I am not aware of women who > > have the latter employing doula's. > > > > My exeprience is that such women and their families feel confident to > > get on with the pregnancy labour, birth and psot natal time themselves with > > their midwives as the only paid supports? > > Denise Hynd > > > > "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world. For, > > indeed, they are the only ones who ever have." > > Margaret Mead > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kylie Carberry > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 8:04 AM > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] doula article > > > > > > Hi everyone > > Wellbeing mag would now like me to do an article on doulas, also > > for the baby special. I have a couple of doulas to talk to and am looking at > > adding the thoughts of a hospital based midwife who has seen the benefits of > > doulas in the labour ward. > > Let me know if anyone would like to help out. > > > > Kylie Carberry > > > > Freelance Journalist > > > > PH: 02 42970115 > > > > m: 0418 220 638 > > > > a: 21 Susan Ave, Warilla, NSW 2528 > > > > e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Feeling spent? Apply here for emergency plastic surgery. > > Virgincreditcard.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.858 (20040901) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
