Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Abby:   I don't find it ridiculous that you would say it. Vegetarians are often held to much "higher" expectations than others, but just in case you hadn't noticed they are human too and liable to all such vagaries.  Apparently refusing to eat animals or objecting to animal cruelty implies one is on another plane. Only to those who for some reason are offended by such a position. Vegetarians never portray themselves as "perfect". At least not in my experience (always the caveat).   As the mother of 3 fabulous vegetarians (all women) and an aspiring one myself (vegetarian that is) I am amazed that you find the incongruities of life amazing. My daughters are vegetarians primarily because they find all life sacred including vegetables, if people photosynthetized they would be far happier, however they don't (and neither so I) and so we eat...vegetables. Already a compromise has been made. Of course we find all human life sacred. However, as the daughters of midwives (my mother was one too) they and I are aware of the disparate lives many people lead including women who choose a vegetarian lifestyle. Truly, noone is immune. As Belinda said very well compassion and non-judgement of others is where we (midwives) must come from.    Since my mother was a midwife in the good old days before women had their ever tentative "right" to safe abortions I actually do remember her grief when young healthy women came into hospital with gas gangrene often dying from septic shock. That was violence.   Women from all walks of life and philosophies choose abortions for various reasons but I have yet to meet one who made the decision lightly or as just another method of birth control.   In the women I attend at birth I have yet to notice if previous abortions effected their birth process: I mean as a far as I am aware some such women birth spontaneously and well and others struggle trapped by the medicalised nature of their birthing environment: what I am saying is that there does not appear to be either a birthing advantage or disadvantage to having previous abortions. Perhaps we need a retrospective study?   I have worked on both sides of the fence so to speak in abortion clinics couselling women pre and postabortion and assisting (though not doing) the procedure. I also work as a midwife. The planned parenthood quote "A tube is inserted through the cervix into the uterus. A hand-held instrument gently empties the uterus" is actually entirely accurate: in a first  trimester abortion the uterus is still very small not yet out of the pelvis the procedure has to be physically gentle or the uterus will be perforated. The tube is very small because the cervix does not have to dilate fully. Because of previous experiences some women find any vaginal procedure tantamount to rape this includes a speculum exam for a pap smear, ve's during labour and birth, and most certainly an abortion. Surely if any of these procedures occurs when a woman is objecting then it is exactly that...rape. I personally have not witnessed such an event and have not met a practitioner who would proceed in such circumstance. Sadly, apparently this does not mean it has not happened. Of course abortion is NEVER an emotionally or spiritually  or psychologically  "gentle" procedure.   I could go on and on but there is a time limit and I have to go to work. I totally agree with all Belinda and Justine have said.   marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: Abby and Toby To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc >>Vegetarianism and abortion, I find that incredibly ridiculous!   I just can't get this comment out of my head. It is so ridiculous...........so ridiculous that some women don't eat meat because they don't want to harm or kill an animal, yet they will willfully, and by choice, harm and kill their unborn baby. I find this incredibly ridiculous.   Abby