RE: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...

[Dean & Jo]

The sleep thing is always an interesting topic true. I personally did the controlled crying with my first as he didn’t sleep at 8 months until a bit over 14 months.  As a new born I did the ‘right thing’ and put him in a cot in another room and my hubby would get up and get Bailey for me when he woke for feeds – I had a shocking cs that resulted in 3 months worth of postpartum bleeding, wound infections and wound bursting so getting up was more agony than anything else!   My hubby went away for a week when I was pregnant with my second and I was sooooo lonely in bed I went and got my then 14month old and we slept in the bed together and had such a wonderful relaxing sleep even though I had that half awake mother thing going as you do when you co-sleep.  I decided that as my babies were ‘hugged’ by me for nine months, and that I as an adult did not like sleeping alone, why should I make my babies do it?  My next two children slept in our bed from the day they were born until the day they said “I want to sleep in my own bed tonight”.  We had a bed for them that they slept in during the day, and so the transition was not that traumatic ….. for them!   I was saying to a fellow lister on Saturday night that now I wake my three and half year old Samuel and bring him into bed with me!!     Anyway, from my experience, I found the sleep training traumatic for me and for them and found that with more support from hubby, friends, family, even getting a baby sitter to watch bub whilst I slept during the day, actually going to bed early and having a nap when the kids did instead of being super mum and getting six weeks worth of housework done in a short period of time whilst kids slept, and also feeding my babies when they wanted was the key to a happy relaxed mother, wife and woman.  I am a huge fan of what pinky writes about and I give her books to new parents as frequently as possible to help them avoid the trauma that requires people to elect sleep training.   As I do with women’s birth choices, I never judge, but I sincerely hope that women actually look holistically before they turn to sleep doctors or such.  Like those who elect cs, it is what is best for them, as long as they are fully informed of the risks, benefits and alternative options.  When I see Child and Youth Health advertise on TV saying the first 18 months of your babies life is crucial in cognitive development and bubs require love, trust and cuddles…I think “well my first is screwed because of what they told me to do!”    Thanks for letting me share. Jo   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barb Glare Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...   Hi,   This topic always stimulates heated debate (which I quite enjoy)   Katrina, I see it quite differently to you.  I took my first son to a sleep "place"  11 yrs ago.  He was my first baby.  I went back to work after 6 weeks.  He fed frequently day and night, wasn't much of a weight gainer.  I was exhausted. Initially I thought the regime was great (though he never did learn to sleep)  But I got some rest and time out, which I badly needed.  However, on reflection, it was terrible.  It further undermined my confidence.  Especially since we "failed".  And yes, I was persistant and consistent. For the next 5 months, I never picked him up at night.  I never fed him at night.  We rocked him in his cot til he went to sleep. Until when he was 10mnths old and I was still exhausted (from all that rocking, screaming and settling) a kind friend and ABA counsellor suggested that I'd persisted long enough and pointed out that many, many mothers just put the baby in bed with them and get on with it.   Today I have 4 fabulous children and work with mothers nearly every day in my paid work or my volunteer work.  The sleep programs work for some.  But I see many many more mothers who are doing a fabulous job with their children and yet have had their confidence undermined by societal expectations and sleep programs.  Sadly I see babies (one last week) who was seriously underweight and the mother at risk of losing her breastfeeding relationship (which she very much valued) because she followed such a routine from birth.   There is plenty of evidence that not responding to the needs of a baby and letting them cry does cause damage.  I think I posted an article to ozmidwfery last week (if not, I can)  But mothering is a tough gig, and it's hard to meet your babies needs when you are not getting enough care and support yourself, and I guess this is our challenge.   The rest of my children have slept with me until they moved to their own rooms, which 2 of them have done.  My lovely baby sleeps wrapped in my arms.  Last week I was appalled when I mentioned to an aquaintance that Guan slept with us and he asked me if "the department" (of human services) knew about that. (she's adopted and we have to be "followed up) Why would they?  Most mothers in the world sleep with their babies. It's true that society functions very differently to the way it has done, but do babies?  They have the same physiology, biology and psychology that they always did.   Love, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: Ceri & Katrina To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...   Hi Abby I have personally been to a family care cottage (similar to Tresillian from what I understand) with both my children. As far as I am concerned they were wonderful. I also have friends that have been down to Tresillian and have come back different people due to the sleep they are now getting.   What about the studies showing that babies still get at least 25% of their nutrition at night time if they need it? What studies? Where are they? I would love to read them. As a middy student we are being taought to base our practice on evidence - would love more info on them. What about their tiny tummies? What about them? If they are hungry they will wake... otherwise they wake up ravenous in the morning for a huge feed - ie break fast! What about the emotional and physical impacts on the child? And these are? Again where is the evidence? What about the fact that we know so much more about the psychological effects that the Tresillian method has on the child?? We do? Again how and where is it, would love to be more informed. What about the fact that this child has had her whole life rearranged and needs her mummy and daddy to nurture and care for her not take her to a strange place and have strangers `care` for her. What about the parents sanity and inability to function well due to lack of sleep. I admit that babies do wake up and not all will sleep though from a young age. But a child that is constantly up and causing havoc as everyone else in the house is up and not sleeping. That's a recipe for disaster. The whole basis of Tresillian I thought, was to give the parents strategies to help their child, not to be used as a babysitting service. I think Abby that society itself functions very differently than it used to. Years ago you would have countless amounts of friends and family that were close and supportive of you, often there to help out with changing family situations and parenting. Now though families can be living on opposite sides of the world, and people do not have the close knit support and encouragement that is often needed. Hence places like Tresiliian offer a community service for women and their families. Until we live in a more open society services like this will be needed to take the place of the helpful insight that used to come from uncles, aunts, grandparents etc. Perhaps you may have a better idea on how these women can access help??? I think we also need to remember that everyone parents differently and has different parenting experiences. Katrina :-) On 13/12/2004, at 9:42 PM, Abby and Toby wrote: Hmmmmmmmmm, was just on the phone to a friend talking about when this would get posted on here...........Pinky are you on this list? lol! As if parents need more pressure to sleep and have children that should be sleeping through. Too much focus goes on how many hours a baby sleeps or if they are a good sleeper and not enough focus goes into parenting and night time parenting. Parenting is a 24hour a day 7 day a week job. I can't believe, that people believe, that a three month old should be able to put herself back to sleep?? What about the studies showing that babies still get at least 25% of their nutrition at night time if they need it? What about their tiny tummies? What about the emotional and physical impacts on the child? What about the fact that we know so much more about the psychological effects that the Tresillian method has on the child?? What about the fact that this child has had her whole life rearranged and needs her mummy and daddy to nurture and care for her not take her to a strange place and have strangers `care` for her.  I don't believe that Tresillian teaches how to "understand the perspective of the infants", how can they when they use 85 year old ideas that can cause psychological damage to such a young child. Their formula is not "sleep-inducing" it is `shut down for survival` inducing. It erks me that newspapers print such propaganda.   Abby   http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Thanks-baby-whisperers-now-we-can-all-sleep/2004/12/12/1102786955922.html   This should be of interest to you....... --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 12/14/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 12/14/2004