A very interesting discussion on breech births and midwives:
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm
Vedrana
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Miriam Hannay
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:10 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies
I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear of
breech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let'
women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fully
managed, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann's
up, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me this
seems torture. I am a second year Bmid student and
intending to go into independent practice, so am
availing myself of every extra learning opportunity
available.
A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime),
attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop in
Melbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feel
much more comfortable about the possibility now.
I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM was
an undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. We
need to be prepared and develop the skills to handle
this situation. What a shame and potential danger it
is if these skills fall by the way.
Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, she
dispells fears and demystifies like no-one else.
Regards, Miriam (FUSA)
--- Susan Cudlipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also
> been a midwife long enough
> to have seen many breech births - back in the UK,
> and delivered a few
> myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at
> least they were mostly
> seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective
> C/S (nearly 21 years old
> now!) was for primip breech, although I was given
> the choice of vaginal
> birth, I knew just what that would entail within the
> large unit that I was
> obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy,
> and I chose not to go
> there, however at that time there was no question
> that I would not be able
> to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not
> so.
>
> A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who
> was lucky enough to see a
> less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed
> Melissa :-)) and she
> chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to
> be induced on the 'right'
> day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that
> we really don't see
> them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who
> does do them does such a
> horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S
> rather than submit to
> his handling.( you can probably guess that one too
> Mel!)
>
> It is sad that student midwives today will not learn
> these essential skills
> within the hospital system. Personally I feel
> confident that I can handle
> an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next
> generation are going to
> cope with this, there is so much fear of what is
> really only a different
> variety of birth, in the same way that any
> 'different' presentation is.
> Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie
> Banks speak, watched her
> video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers
> will know that this is
> true
>
> Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling
> having just come to
> Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself).
> It was a real shock to
> me to see how much all births are seen as being the
> doctor's property. One
> of my first births here was in a small hospital and
> I called the GP as per
> protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands
> and proceeded to rush
> in, without even washing his hands and virtually
> pushed me out of the way!
> I looked at him with horror and said quietly " I
> think I may as well finish
> the job now don't you?" He did step back and let me
> finish. Some years
> later he admitted that he had learned a few things
> from me - one of which
> was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver
> the shoulders! They
> were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby
> out, it drove me mad.
>
> >> When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician
> (often a male authority
> >> figure) telling them their baby is in danger -
> they will chose to protect
> >> their child because as a mother that is their
> instinct.
> >>
> An example of this happened to me just this week -
> the head was well and
> truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal
> distress) but OB insisted on
> listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about
> 100, and he took over
> from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for
> the baby as I knew there
> had been no compromise throughout and that he would
> be born within minutes,
> but within the system I am obliged to defer to the
> doctor's judgement,
> whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know
> well what happens when
> one tries to argue!!
>
> I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy
> - it is very different
> here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep
> pushing for midwifery led
> care. I feel that much of the problem lies with
> how we are percieved and
> presented within this system. We are seen as being
> secondary and forced
> into a 'waitress' role, while doctors are glorified
> as being all-knowing
> experts. I have spent ages discussing things with
> couples only to have
> everything overturned by a 5 minute doctor
> appointment.
> Nice to have your input on the list
> Sue
> "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is
> for good men to do
> nothing"
> Edmund Burke
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brendamanning"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
>
>
> > Rachel,
> >
> > Actually that was me (Brenda)not Sue, who wrote
> about the physiological
> > breeches, and I do realise now that experience is
> rare.
> > When you speak about choice & what you'd do if you
> had a breech baby
> > yourself you are really limited because there are
> not many of us in PP who
> > have experience with breeches.
> > I would definitely not alter plans to birth at
> home if my baby was breech
> > (but I have had 4 children) finding a MW to attend
> would be a difficult
> > task though!
> > There is no way on earth I'd consent to surgery to
> remove my healthy baby
> > just because he was upside down !
> > The next best option here would be to go to our
> local private hospital
> > with my own MW & the OB who supports us (he was
> the OB who had enough
> > belief in women 10 years ago to be present for
> their breech births but now
> > is 'not allowed' to do them because of the breech
> trial).
> > I would just insist, but then I can be very
> determined !!
> >
> > BM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "wump fish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
> >
> >
> >> Sue, you are so lucky to have cared for women
> having a physiological
> >> breech. I have only seen one vaginal breech - and
> it was far from
> >> physiological (epidural, stirrups, fiddling about
> etc).
> >>
> >> Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we teach
> women about saying 'no'.
> >> When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician
> (often a male authority
> >> figure) telling them their baby is in danger -
> they will chose to protect
> >> their child because as a mother that is their
> instinct.
> >>
> >> Women need to be making decisions such as
> c-section within a partnership
> >> relationship with a known midwife. They should be
> given honest,
> >> evidence-based info by someone who truely
> believes in the body's ability
> >> to birth (ie. not a dr) and will support their
> decision whatever it is
> >> (including c-section). Women would then be able
> to make choices which are
> >> right for them as individuals - not right for the
> system.
> >>
> >> As for breech birth. The Term-Breech Trial is
> often used by the obs as
> >> evidence that breech birth is unsafe for the
> baby. However, this is not
> >> what it shows. It can only tell us what happens
> in large hospitals with
> >> obs management of breech birth. It does not
> compare physiological birth
> >> with c-secion. Based on the findings - if I was
> planning a breech birth I
>
=== message truncated ===
Send instant messages to your online friends
http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or
unsubscribe.
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or
unsubscribe.
